The Institute (協会)

they've got to convince themselves they're right.

Maybe they've read John Eldredge and they need a battle to fight.

Mary, good point

Steve, but if they've read Eldredge they would know that the Great Battle is not fighting within the church so its gotta be more than that.

anthony - you make several good points here and on the subject of authenticity over there.

Good point. I came from the POV that they preceived the idea as threat to orthdoxy, and needed to disagree with it, therefore, a Great Battle, but I seem to be have read into your post more than I ought. I apologize.

That it's guys, Mary makes a good point.

You ask, why reformed people? I wonder if it is a particular characteristic/subclass within the reformed church?

THis is a good question, ther are a couple of answers to it.

THe most obvious one, is you are probably in the circle of young reformed people, i.e. 18-28, who have not yet matured and understanding what to argue about and what not to.

Or, the other case is arguing is intellectual stimulation, playing chess with idea's. Seeking truth through making a position and then finding out if it holds against counter arguements.

I admit I enjoy the latter, but sometimes fall into the former.

what are "reformed people"?

Could be because the Reformed world attracts these sorts of people. The Reformed world tends to think through things a bit more than evangelicalism, and so most of the people coming to the Reformed tradition probably share this. And if you grow up Reformed, you're often thought to think through doctrine. It's very easy to go from this search & love for truth into debate for the sake of debate.

I've got a good bit of respect for the people I know who are willing to discuss scripture in-depth, and debate - but don't start debates, and discuss things out of love. But it's a hard balance! :-)

And yes, being young, and wanting to prove that you're right probably have something to do with it, too.

I disagree.

I certainly hope you are not perceiving a contrarian spirit in my questions. I'm legitimately perplexed by your approach to aspects of both gender (the manliness posts) and racial identity and so have asked honest questions about your statements on those issues. If they are perceived as contrarian, keep in mind that you are often making very strong statements, with often very little nuance, and so should expect to receive questions in response. Most issues have shades of grey in them.

My thoughts on the original post:

Within young reformed men, I sense a textbook lack of self-esteem combined with a lack of peace within their faith which is compensated for by an over-the-top need to prove themselves on an intellectual level -- which often leads to contrarian behavior.

It's not good enough that God said something, they have to tell you WHY God said something (as if THEY are speaking for God) -- and imply that you must be intelligent (college-educated, preferably) to even be able to KNOW what God REALLY MEANS. This is, in essence, reducing inerrant scripture to debate fodder to feed one another's pride as if anybody win actually "win" anything.

This, of course, is contrary to scripture:

(James 1:5); If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Funny, I don't see the world college, school or bachelor's degree in that verse. (And, yes, I do have a degree...)

You can also chalk a lot of the attitude up to simple youthful pride and arrogance. Which we all are, or were, guilty of at one point or another.

Life is short and I'd rather not debate scripture, but would rather know what God has to say about things so I can then tell others.

Maybe it's better put this way:
I'm a witness for Lord, not a lawyer.

I can't see the wind, but I know it's there.

...as if anybody actually "wins" anything....
...that should be the line...

yes...I know...
THE Lord...

Man, it's late. I can't type.

bill - great comments and my thoughts too. I have grown up in reformed circles and this does not happen just at a 20 something level. Have any of you been to a General Assembly or listened to conversations on a seminary campus. Theological Debate seems to have become "that which prooves how great your faith is". I know more seminary students (and preachers) that know the words but are far from being good pastors.

Bryan Chappell had some great comments at GA about the character of incoming seminary students. He echoed what Barlow expresses about lack of self confidence, but added that a lack of valued family tradition, discipleship and biblical maturity has made for a very contrarian group of young men. Chapel aslo discussed the impersonal nature of debate on the internet as a factor that has only exhacerbated the "bomb throwing" rather than created new avenues for constructive dialogue. I wish I could find an transcript of his discussion - as I felt it was excellent.

Maybe it's about power.