The Institute (協会)

I have a friend who got a free ride through medical school at Meharry in Nashville, a traditional black med school, because he was a minority. He loved it and got a great education.

“On God’s green earth, white people only comprise 13 percent of the population…I believe if you are a white parent with white kids and you haven’t taught them to live as a minority within the earth’s population you have done them a disservice. You haven’t prepared your children for a world reality” From Ray Bakke in A Theology as Big as the City.

I went to a college about three miles from Wellesley College. Technically I could have enrolled in classes there, but it was "frowned upon". They would let men in occasionally to avoid violating discrimination laws but didn't really want them there.

I always assumed that was the attitude of traditionally black schools such as Morehouse...is that not the case? Or is this guy just the exception to the rule. For me, being surrounded by people who are accepting and inclusionary would be more important than their gender or race.

joel, great quote--anthony(from the Detroit airport)

I better fess up: I really did read that directly a long time ago but most recently on Linda Leigh Hargrove's site: www.17seeds.com.

My son is 1 of 3 white kids at Martin Luther King High School. . . on the way home we had a discussion about getting a good college education at an HBCU. He's open, I'm encouraged. We'll see. . .

Kudos to Packwood. And from everything I've ever heard, Morehouse is an exemplary school with an exemplary student body. He certainly gained a great deal by choosing to go there. And finally, I am very glad to say that my pastor would certainly encourage his children to attend a black college if they even hinted at the desire. He would be proud that they were choosing God's best for them whatever it might be.

One of the kids who graduated high school a few years before me, Marcus Jacoby, not only attended a traditionally black university, Southern University, but was accepted on the football team as a quarterback for several years. I believe there were some problems that caused him to leave, but I believe they were fostered by a coaching change.

I do echo, Chas' question though: do traditionally black colleges tend to welcome white students?

Great post Anthony. Thanks.

To the question about black colleges welcoming white students, I have an anecdotal reason to say... yes, they are welcoming. While Mandy and I were in Atlanta we became fairly good friends with a young man from Afghanistan who was doing his undergrad at Morehouse - biology/pre-med. Now he is not white, of course, but he is was a minority. Every account he ever gave was that he was very warmly welcomed at the school by administrators, professors and students.

Mandy and I also attended a couple of concerts on the Morehouse campus and we were also warmly welcomed.

Mike

Joel, I disagree w/anthony. Thats an idiotic statement, seriously. Maybe good intentions behind it, but completely idiotic. Its a stat not a quote! Plus his "teach your white kids to live as a minority" is complete non-sense. What does that even mean? Seriously, quoting stats as some sort of insight is actually not insight at all. If we all lived as if none of us were a "minority" but rather just a lesser # worldwide as it concerns nationality/race/ or whatev then maybe we could actually move on past this whole "minority" bs. There are less blacks than whites. Thats it, I will never act as a "minority" will never teach my kids that they are a "minority" . I will teach them that there are X amount of whites in the world, X amount of blacks in the world, x amount of who the eff ever. Thats it! So , son we have a less amount of people that are colored like us compared to group X. Big effing deal. No go out there and conquer whatever you want kid.

Plus the quote has nothing to do with the blog. We are talking about college HERE in the states. Black are a minority, whites are the majority HERE in the states (although I think Hispanics are now since the last census, prob due to all the illegals). So Your quote sounds even more outta place. I sure hope your kid isnt raised as a "minority", I am sure hes smart enough to realize the amount of kids that look like him are small compared to those that dont. I bet he doesnt give a rip either.

and by the way the worst leadership in the world is the "black leadership" in this country. Talk about not "preparing" them for a "world reality". White kids are bombarded about all the other races etc etc every freaking day. Yet the black leadership doesnt do jack to help their OWN EFFING PEOPLE to see the REALITY of the situation! Whites do a way better job at that than blacks. Charles Barkley, Bill Cosby, Jason Whitlock, Anthony Bradley, and Thomas Sowell, should be informing black parents about what "world Reality" is out there. Instead you have Jesse Jack, Sharpton, all the rap stars, even Obama, not telling these kids the truth of what "world reality" the american black kid grows up in. Its called they are a minority in #'s. Thats it! But the rappers use it as an honor badge (which its not), the REvs use it as a $ tool and a job, (seriously what would they do), and Obama uses as a buggy whip to get the masses thinking he will bring about racial harmony (which will never happen... ever) and that the blacks are still oppressed (which they arent).
Honestly, maybe there is more context for the quote, but its absurd. You know there was this one guy a while back saying that elections are won by whoever has the most $, or its a popularity contest, or we invaded Iraq for oil, or a quote like this one above shows up. It seems to me like people love to use sophmoric logic and throw out random quotes, or ideas that just sound so cute or interesting, or revelatory. They arent. I think about the 1 blog anthony had about modern worship songs and some dude posted a few lines that said "what does this even mean?". yep

Sort of random, but why is the white dude the only one smiling in the pic? The guy with the glasses almost is. But dang the other three have a look like they wana kill the photographer or something.

Stork, ranting about your position with a clear unwillingness to listen to anyone . . . what exactly was your point? The one thing that might be dumber than sophomoric logic is engaging in dialogue with some one who thinks engaging dialogue is shouting the loudest. So maybe this response is a lot dumber than my first. . . I just keep thinking . . . that chip must be really really heavy.

For you the notion of living as a minority may seem asinine. For me it is reality (we live in a 90+ % black neighborhood). The social skills and capital that comes from being here and learning to live as a minority prepares me and my kids to live in a world that is rapidly becoming multicultural. Whether is it in the courts, the business world, athletics, ministry or any other place my kids will be much better prepared to live in this rapidly urbanizing/diversifying world.

I consider myself a Christian and a Person before a US citizen -- both of those 2 categories make me as a white guy a minority. Then as an "United States Citizen" I am in the majority, but then as a Chicagoan and especially in my neighborhood I am back in the minority.

Within the lifetime of my grand kids they will likely be a minority in the US. . . in the next 2 generations of my family I expect a high degree of multicultural mix. That is a world reality and I hate to say it but it is headed your way too.

By the way (a) it was a quote, not just a stat which is why you were able to quote it, (b) it was at least implicitly about what we teach our kids about how they live in the world. Anthony was wondering why white parents don't see the value (and pass it to their kids) in being in collegiate settings where they are minorities. I assure you that if your kids did consider going to an HBCU (which would have great value for them) they would come back understanding the stupidity of your stereotypical response.

Only those in the majority can and do argue for "colorblindness" as a societal virtue. . . I know you don't get that. . .

Do you need me to send you a new keyboard? It felt like you pounded yours pretty good. . . .

One reason that a lot of people aren't considering the historically black colleges would be something Walter Williams wrote about recently; some very bad academics at some of them, as recorded by a former professor there.

Thankfully not all, but just a few can poison the situation for all of them, sad to say.

Personally, I've taken a decent look at Tuskegee's web site to try and get an idea of what they're about. Get me a mostly black school that teaches real liberal arts and doesn't take government money, and I'd give it a serious look for my kids.

My point was that the quote you posted is absurd. And I think I explained why.

I will never have, neither did i advocate a "colorblindness" as a societal virtue. That will never happen, so I am not ignorant to think it would. But teaching someone that they are the "minority" as anything other than a stat is absurd.

Maybe you can tell me this then, b/c obviously me pounding the keys and using words that are poignant put you off, what does the quote mean when he says to

1) "teach" your kid to live as a minority. Seriously, what does that mean? (to me that sounds non-sensical)

2) He says "w/in the earths population" none of us live "w/in" the earths population, we are part of it, but we "live"in a community. Joel, You live in Chicago, in the USA. SO you are a minority in your neighborhood, but you are a majority in your country, but you are a minority once again in light of N. and S. America. But maybe you are a even a greater minority when looking at Africa or maybe even less when looking at Asia. ?!

SO Joel, when I hear a quote like this and it sounds so cool and insightful, its actually absurd. Teaching your or my white son that A) All people are valuable, equall, and redemable in the eyes of God, B) No one people group or person is superior or better or more evil, or better or worse, regardless of sterotypes, C) Son, we are not the majority here. There are a million blacks and 100 whites, so we are a statistical minority.
Thats sounds pretty straightfwd.

How in the world would someone teach their kids the quote above. Hey timmy, let me show you how... (reference my # 2)
I still dont get what follows from that anyways, or even if you could get your kid to actually listen to you for that long.

My fingers are stated to show signs of wear and tear b/c of the pounding this thing. I think its cool you could tell the ppsi i am jamming down on these things with :) But maybe tell me how raising your kid to be a great kid but not making sure they know they are the worlds minority is a disservice.

Finally what the heck is a "world reality" ... seriously Joel... this isnt about you but that is just one of the worst quotes that masquerades itself as insightful or eye opening.

Joel, sorry if I hurt your feelings. I just can write w/ a lot of passion. I would never yell in real life and I slept sound last night and I woke up this morning not really thinking about this. But ya know what, I am willing to listen and dialogue, but there are certain things that need to be dismissed outright and rightfully so. So if I am talking with someone and they say the CIA killed Kennedy or Jimmy Hendrix or we blew up our own towers or whtev. They need to be told that they are not welcome in a intellectual dialogue.

You sir, are not stupid, the quote comes off as that. If what you read into it or out of it is diff then what the quote actually says, then maybe we are talking past each other, or I am talking past Ray. I am just taking it at face value and I addressed why it is absurd in my first post and now my second .

Bike Bubba uttered: "Get me a mostly black school that teaches real liberal arts and doesn't take government money, and I'd give it a serious look for my kids."

OMG, are you serious? I can only think of two schools (white ones) that might fit that unrealistic profile: Hillsdale College and maybe Patrick Henry. If those are your schools, esp., the latter, that'll explain a lot.

Dead serious. Yes, in today's world of multibillion dollar subsidies, it's hard for a college piper to avoid taking pay from a government who wants to call the tunes. However, that does not mitigate the fact that he who pays the piper calls the tune. There is a very real cost, starting with the dearth of actual liberal arts education in this country.

Besides, it's not like Hillsdale and Patrick Henry (as well as New Saint Andrews, Grove City, and I'd have to guess some others) limit their admissions to whites, nor would anyone there object if, say, Tuskegee or Grambling joined them in refusing federal grant money. Maybe the Grambling band would taunt Southern in Latin after a few years instead of just putting up the score at halftime. Or Swahili if you want--it's an inflected language that could be useful for the Trivium, too.

Why not? Didn't Booker T. Washington warn about depending on government instead of industry? Didn't W.E.B. DuBois propose exactly this kind of education for the "Talented Tenth"?

Stork,
Wow! You said...

"and by the way the worst leadership in the world is the "black leadership" in this country. Talk about not "preparing" them for a "world reality". White kids are bombarded about all the other races etc etc every freaking day. Yet the black leadership doesnt do jack to help their OWN EFFING PEOPLE to see the REALITY of the situation! Whites do a way better job at that than blacks. Charles Barkley, Bill Cosby, Jason Whitlock, Anthony Bradley, and Thomas Sowell, should be informing black parents about what "world Reality" is out there. Instead you have Jesse Jack, Sharpton, all the rap stars, even Obama, not telling these kids the truth of what "world reality" the american black kid grows up in. Its called they are a minority in #'s. Thats it! But the rappers use it as an honor badge (which its not), the REvs use it as a $ tool and a job, (seriously what would they do), and Obama uses as a buggy whip to get the masses thinking he will bring about racial harmony (which will never happen... ever) and that the blacks are still oppressed (which they arent)."

Wow! And then you have the nerve to expect someone to take you seriously about what you say about anything that has to do with minorities! This is sad. I would never let my sons and daughters come near you because of your view of them as children of color.

Your comments are so isolated! Do you think that those black guys that you mentioned really hold that much power over the overall community? You have no idea about the "everyday" folks in the neighborhood who hold community resources meetings, faciliate/head up the neighborhood watch program, teachers that stay after school to work with numerous students, etc. I am so sick of white people talking about Sharpton, Jackson, etc. Who cares about those dudes!!!!

Stork we have been through this before and it is clear that you and I see life through two different lenses and thats fine. I think that is actually a good thing that we all don't actually see life the same but your matter of factness in areas that you are clearly ignorant in is sickening.

So keep wrighting in CAPITAL letters (EFFING!!) and telling people that their thoughts "need to be outright dismissed." Tough guy!

Say what you need to say but after the quote about black leadeship you need to be "outright dismissed" in any conversation that has to do with race or other cultures.

Please don't teach your children this...

"and by the way the worst leadership in the world is the "black leadership" in this country. Talk about not "preparing" them for a "world reality". White kids are bombarded about all the other races etc etc every freaking day. Yet the black leadership doesnt do jack to help their OWN EFFING PEOPLE to see the REALITY of the situation! Whites do a way better job at that than blacks. Charles Barkley, Bill Cosby, Jason Whitlock, Anthony Bradley, and Thomas Sowell, should be informing black parents about what "world Reality" is out there. Instead you have Jesse Jack, Sharpton, all the rap stars, even Obama, not telling these kids the truth of what "world reality" the american black kid grows up in. Its called they are a minority in #'s. Thats it! But the rappers use it as an honor badge (which its not), the REvs use it as a $ tool and a job, (seriously what would they do), and Obama uses as a buggy whip to get the masses thinking he will bring about racial harmony (which will never happen... ever) and that the blacks are still oppressed (which they arent)."

Please, Please, Please, do not teach them this stuff. The baby boomer way of thinking is starting to fade and the last thing we need is this type of thinking being past onto the upcoming generation thus setting us back.

SAD!

Ok, I'll take the bait.

Teaching one's kids to live as a minority would involve a LOT of things. For starters it would include teaching them to be a good listener to people who don't look, sound, think, act or live like "we" do. It would mean helping them to see that social norms and mores that are "normal" to us are not necessarily good (they might be, they might not be). It means expecting to find grace, insight and wisdom in other cultures. For whites it also means that just because US society has been dominated by what is normal to white-guy-me, its ok to let these norms fall under that scrutiny -- without defensiveness.

As could be applied in the setting of the black college or church, it also means that I would instill a sense of wisdom in learning about alot of this from people who don't look, act, and sound like Dad. Having a black pastor is a value for my kids, in part because it will help them understand our community in ways I can't explain/teach/comprehend, as well as the simple perspective that our pastor brings on finances, ethics, relationships, humility and everything else pastors teach about.

I would expect a that an HBCU would afford similar value. It means that we'd find value in intentionally diverse settings (leadership teams, designs, food, aesthetics, music, etc..).

To set this in a larger "world-reality" means applying these things on an international level. The specific application then comes in a combination of how one views war, immigration, international politics, globalization, and how we argue, think, vote, and interact with others. I don't know where the readers of this blog are but in my own I have had visitors from Khazikstan, England, Spain, Korea and other places. . . so you are quite literally in a world setting on this blog and the way you conduct yourself, argue, etc... qualifies for "living". I assume your heart is beating, and you are breathing while connecting on this blog. . .

So, quite the contrary of your initial emotional response and your slower more thoughtful secondary response. . . it is neither absurd nor nonsensical. your note didn't hurt my feelings and if you still decide I (and by extension Bakke) didn't make sense I can live with that.

I just get the sense from your way-over-the-top responses to "black leadership" that your ears are off. Serious intellectual dialogue would at least ask why conspiracy theories abound in SOME aspects of black leadership. If you want serious dialogue but choose to dismiss folks . . . well, you can't have it both ways.

I love a well place curse as much as anyone but all your "Effing" this and that just comes off as you being mad at black folks for following leaders you don't approve of. . . and it gives me the distinct impression you don't (a) have many close black friends who can set Jackson/Sharpton and others in context and (b) you haven't taken you own points "a" and "b" about value and faults seriously. You can spout them but does anyone black believe you?

ps. I didn't mean that last question as an invective. I also didn't mean it as asking you if you have "a black friend". . . It was somewhat rhetorical but also quite serious. Reworded: Does the tone of your interaction around these subjects inspire trust in folks of other races/ethnicities leading them to think you really value them? I don't get the impression you do. . . do they?

Well said Joel!

I think that Joel's comments could also be slightly modified just to say "teach your kids to live like a Christian"--like a follower of Christ, humble, a servant of others, recognizing that I'm sinful, you're sinful, and we're likely to often misunderstand each other, as well as likely to learn from each other. Communication is so huge--and people so often misunderstand each other and make assumptions.

Well said Jamie! Great job of putting it in perspective!

jamie, I agree with that except that it can be a way to let people off the hook too easily.

Its like the way white church leaders say things like "we think racially diversity is a part of God's plan, and we'll just be Christians and hey, black folk (or others) are welcome anytime". It won't happen.

So rather than saying "just live like Christians. . . and we are likely to learn from each other" I think it has to be far more intentional than that. So we have to say that living like Christians involves active exploration of the imago dei in others -- especially those who are not like us. It needs definition to be meaty. . .

I would guess that the folks Anthony was referring to do in fact "teach their kids to live like Christians" but they leave his point intact:rarely if ever do Evangelical (white) Christians see value in HBCU's etc.... that suggests to me that something more intentional should be pursued.

Yes, I agree with your clarification. Although I do believe that people are called to different things and that this may look different in different people's lives (which, sadly, often gives people the excuse to do nothing--like you suggested).

The quote is still ridiculous, black leadership is EFFING terrible and I would never say otherwise unless the evidence pointed elsewhere.

Aaron, who is the "black" leadership is not the clowns i referenced?

Everything that you have read and read into in what I wrote here will not be taught to my kids, they will come to the same conclusions that I have b/c of the evidence. Aaron, got any good ideas on how to make sure my kids are raised right? Taught right? I dont know... I have taught them good logic and good reasoning skills and most importantly to seek Christ and do the things he did. Nowhere here did I say anything that would be against any of those. If anything, you think I am out of touch or dont have enough "black" friends or whatev, which by the way Mr. CApital AARON :) all my black friends have influenced my thots that I have penned down here more than any other source... but all my points still stand, all my points are straightforward, and none of my points have been argued against by Mr. Aaron or Joel.
The quote is so freaking stupid that I am getting tired of saying it. I think its stupid, you dont think it is... get over it. I would have a great discussion with you to your face and if you held a diff belief than me I would tell you straight to your face that you hold a stupid belief, but not that you are stupid.

So have a good weekend, and stop thinking about me. :)

Yebbut Stork, is "white" leadership much to brag about? And no, I'm not even talking about anyone who advocates the kind of garbage the "LG" clowns do. Who would you want to follow?

Yeah, few and far between, ain't it?

Lest I prove beyond any reasonable doubt that I've wandered with Stork and others on a bunny trail into oblivion(yes, I've done it before, can't speak for Stork), there is a link here to education; unfortunately, our colleges and universities as a whole have been absorbed into the political sphere.

As unreasonable and impractical as I am (thanks gracious host--there is some reality to what you said and I can admit it cheerfully), I'm more and more persuaded that the further a school gets away from government interference, the better for its students, faculty, and alumni.

Wow! Stork... I think you are a really hurting person so I think I will leave you alone. If you think that what you said in your earlier comments is "Christ like" and that is what you are going to teach your kids then I don't think we will ever be able to have a good conversation about race/culture/ and the gospel. Which is fine... no big deal.

So let's just call it quits while we are ahead.

And by the way your " I would tell you to your face" stuff is laughable. Come on dawg you have to be joking right? Funny guy!

Peace!

"'teach your white kids to live as a minority' is complete non-sense."
Deleuze & Guattari! Minorities aren't born, they are made. There's some great warrants to that argument in the books of the authors mentioned above. I suggest a look. You'll find some great critical lit. by some amazingly brilliant people.

"Whites do a way better job at that than blacks"
Constructing reality, or realizing it? What are black leaders supposed to say? What's "reality?" It's entirely possible that one person's reality isn't the same as yours. To assume there's an objective "social reality" that everyone should agree on always-already demands that the status quo remain intact and that all alternatives be debased and considered irrational. And that's sort of counter-productive to anyone who wants to have a discussion with people who aren't just like him/her. I'd say that anyone who's willing to take up leadership in such a sticky, stagnating situation deserves more credit than the leaders of "White America" for at least trying.

"they are a minority in #'s."
From the literature I've read on the subject, I've found the argument that "Minority" is a social construct more and more persuasive. There have been plenty of minorities that weren't minorities statistically. If 51% of this country was suddenly overnight made up of Hispanics, they would still be a minority de facto and de jure.

Anyway, just some stuff to think on I guess.

Going to a black college would be an amazing experience. Is there a consensus in the black community as to whether or not this is a "good" thing?