The Institute (協会)

First, how do they retain their tax-exempt status?

Second, I wish I were as unprivileged as Obama. Harvard education must be a real drag. And I guess his wife's time at Princeton and Harvard was also the result of not being privileged.

Third, has Obama ever been called a "bitch" (and not because someone was questioning his manhood)? And if memory serves me right, women haven't exactly been afforded equal rights for a tremendously long time. I realize women weren't treated as badly, but that doesn't mean they were treated as equals to white males.

Finally, let's assume that America is comparable to the time of Christ. How did Jesus go about challenging the norms of that day? It sure wasn't by running for political office and enforcing a new norm top-down. (I may be reading too much into this, but it sure does seem like he's comparing Obama to Jesus. I know Obama-mania is hitting a high, but that seems a bit too high.)

If you are asking for opinions when you say "watch this and let me know what stirs up," then here is mine:

That is very nearly the most absurd mockery of a "sermon" I have ever heard a preacher preach.

If you were not asking for opinions, then no comment.

I am so disconnected from this part of America, I do not even know what to say. Other then the pain that is portrayed seems immense.

If Obama listens to this kind of thing most weeks, he apparently has a high pain threshold.

I'm with Brian. This is an even more absurd mockery of a sermon than when a pastor of mine (joking) preached "Mary Had a Little Lamb" in this style.

And Jesus was black? And Hillary's never been the target of invective? And Obama listens to this every Sunday?

(and the IRS isn't cracking down on this?)

This is slightly off topic, but have any of you dudes seen the movie "Election" with Reese Witherspoon and Mathew Broderick. It seems to be a biographical sketch of Hillary in high school. Harry

This is one of the problems with Afro-centric theology, just as much as it is with Euro-centric theology. Reading your own people's struggles into the Scriptures is a quick way to start spouting nonsense. The English did the same thing back in imperial days when they wanted to justify everything they did in the name of empire.

Well, I do think he's crossed the line ... at least a wee bit.

However, I think I understand and appreciate his intent and I think it's true.

Who can most readily appreciate and identify with the struggles of the black man? Not Hillary, but I'm not so sure that's as true of Barak Obama as he lets on either.

As has been stated, it's not as though Barak grew up living next to J.J. of Good Times. He would have even looked down upon those "movin' on up" Jeffersons.

At the end of the day, he's right; a white privileged woman is not able to "feel the pain" of an underprivileged, black man.

Honestly, I've been wondering for how long the status quo of the Democratic party would keep them in position to be able to presume the "black vote" in every election.

If I was a single-issue voter and my issue was, "Who will best champion the cause of the black man?" that wouldn't be Hillary.

questionable Hermeneutics aside, I think there is something to the idea he was trying to draw out - that of Christ bringing hope in the midst of a culture of oppression and despair.

Anyway, I'd like Pastor Wright to stay in "bible country" a bit more and here how we should see Christ life worked out in our current motley culture rather than use his pulpit to publically admonish an individual.

What are the chances Sojourners and Jim Wallis will pick this up???
NS

I don't understand these racists. Thats right, this guy is a huge racist. He has a prejudice against people who are white. Never once did he contrasts the policies of Obama vs Hillary. All he did was divide whites and blacks.

He talks about how he loves Jesus and how Jesus didnt hate those "white" romans. Sounds like he has disdain for Hillary because she is white.

We should snatch up all these white and black bigots and give them the dakotas. No one lives there anyways.....get them out of our society.....:) Just kidding!!!

This is why Obama has distanced himself from Wright and asked him not to come to his party announcing his running for presidency. You should also look at the relationship this church has with Louis Farrakhan. They actually gave him an award, a man who called Judaism a gutter religion and who really hates in an amazing way. It's sad to see a pulpit of privilege and a place where the word of God is to be opened up abused.

Obama isn't rich?

I understand he an his wife are in the top two percent of all income earners in America. What is this guys definition of "rich"? Being in the top one percent?

I wish I were as poor as Obama.

Just for the record, I'd love to have a black man be president if he would take the abortion issue seriously.

Dean - WHAT???
..."I'd love to have a black man be president if he would take the abortion issue seriously"... what are you cRaZy???

How about leaving the color word out?!

How about leaving the gender word out?!

AND how do you, A MAN, feel you are capable of speaking on abortion issues??? just because you stand in a garage doesn't make you a mechanic!

Go stand in the corner till you get your brains outa your undies!

"At the end of the day, he's right; a white privileged woman is not able to 'feel the pain' of an underprivileged, black man."

Gosh. I'm the son of a Norwegian woman and a Mexican-American man. Guess it's going to be a while before I get a president who can feel my pain.

Some people discuss a phenomenon they call identity politics. Discussions about qualifications for office based on whether this or that person is able to feel the pain of members of this or that group ought to be called "identification politics" -- political matters discussed in terms of who can identify with (i.e., "feel the pain of") this or that group. And we ought to see it, insofar as we are Christians, as a form of idolatry. We have ceased looking for leaders. We are now looking for messiahs.

Supposedly, we already have one. We have One who has identified with all of us. He has felt our pain and, more importantly, done something about it's ultimate cause, sin. Senator Obama may feel your pain, but he can do nothing about it. No mortal man can.

@Keven B.
As a former minor league political worker - you hit the nail on the head there. You can thank outlandish people for their support but you stand as far away from them as possible when they do so and hope that the number of votes they bring are greater than the losses prompted by your affiliation.

@Just Meee~
Non sequitor - "AND how do you, A MAN, feel you are capable of speaking on abortion issues???"

Anyone should be able to speak to the abortion issue. Women have greater insights into the issue, but to declare that they should be the sole set of voices in the debate is an overstatement. BTW, yes, as I man I personally feel capable of speaking on abortion issues.

Hmmm...yeah, there seem to be some exaggerations.

Barak was raised by his single WHITE mother.

And I would have to agree that he most definitely is rich and privileged. I saw an article quoting their family income at something like $800,000 a year.

He just seems divisive.

So, Sojourners did pick this up.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2008/03/obamas-pastor-by-diana-butler.html
Apparently, Obama's pastor hasn't done anything wrong at all. I just "don't get it" yet because I'm "too white" and haven't yet read enough pages of black preaching to understand the culture.
My apologies.
NS

nothing like a good reminder of how divided we are here in America. And I am not talking about what the pastor said but more so about the comments represented here.

I am going to make a confession. I really do laught when I hear white people calling black folks "racist." Am I wrong for this? Probably. But to be honest I think this term is used way to loosely by white folks and needs to be handled more carefully.

Maybe we as minorities are "prejudice" but racists I am finding hard to accept. Sure we can be hateful to a white person and maybe even call them "white trash" or "cracka." These are both unacceptable but this is as far as it may go (maybe an occasional beatdown for no reason which again is completely unacceptable and disgusting).

But to me this is prejudice not racism. Racism involves power and "systems" none of which black folks even sniff here in the states. So yes black folks can be prejudice but racist is a whole nother thing. Oh yeah and please save the "blacks can be just as racist as any other group" statements. Of course I know this to be true but it doesn't apply to "blacks" here in the states. Maybe in another country where folks of color are discriminating against another... sure. Not here though where the power is one sided.

Besides what pastor Wright said is true.

- white people do have all the power here (fact)
- there is a history (and even now) of oppression in the black community
- And yes Jesus is all about those that are oppressed and forsaken by this worlds systems

I think the real issue is that it was said by a black man who is a leader in the black community concerned about black issues.

And when will folks stop pretending that they are mad at Farrakahn because he is anti "Jew." This is really funny. We all know that the real reason that white folks don't like Farrakahn because he preaches a message that is rooted in black empowerment and doesn't include white "hand outs." Now all the sudden whites are angry because Farrakahn said something "bad" about Jewish people. That is so funny! Please! Until we get past the loose defintions and cover up rhetoric we are never going to get anywhere. Let's keep it real folks! Then we can sit at the table and be able to see both our (blacks and whites) blind spots and truly reconcile. Until this happens this whole subject is laughable.

I think again the comments on this particular post here suggest that we as black and white folks are still very much divided and it saddens me everytime I think about it. God help us!

NS,
Hmmm.... Unfortunate. I can almost see you gettin red in the face as you write those words.

One more thing I think I need to say then I am done... hopefully ( I can't get pretty full of my self sometimes and actually begin to believe that people listen to me and just start rambling on like a mad man!:))

Anyway I do appreciate (as a man of color) that white folks are starting to "cry wolf" when these things are brought up. Let's be honest the folks that are calling people out on racial issues are white folks these days and man I think that is great. Maybe things are truly changing. I just think there are some "blurred" understandings of some of the rhetoric that is being used that's all.

Lastly I want to say that pastor Wright's message did have some questionable content in there. Please don't take my comment about him being "right" as me saying that everything he said was "all good." Not the case.

Holla!

"Racism, noun:

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race."

(The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition Copyright, 1992, by Houghton Mifflin company.)

Racism, by definition, has nothing to do with "power" or "systems."

"...white people do have all the power here (fact)"

This is false. White people may have a majority of the power, but no one "race" can have "all" of anything, much less "the power."

"...there is a history (and even now) of oppression in the black community"

Oppression being the "arbitrary and cruel exercise of power," this same "history of oppression" could easily and, more importantly, could accurately be said of the "white community" too, whoever they are.

"...And yes Jesus is all about those that are oppressed and forsaken by this worlds (sic) systems"

Jesus came for one reason and one reason only: to save people from their sins.

by no means is this definition of 'racism' definitive. in fact, there are theories of racism to the contrary (e.g. stokely carmichael and charles lawrence). it happens to be a very difficult task of defining racism. also, this statement is most surely false. true, what counts as racism has "nothing to do with 'power' or 'systems'", but the effects of racism have everything to do with power and systems. so, it is misleading at best to say racism has nothing to do with power or systems.

Carl:

I understand what you're getting at when you say, "Jesus came for one reason and one reason only: to save people from their sins." Strictly speaking, though, the Bible never makes redemption strictly about the souls of individuals. That's a part of it, but there is also the restoration of the fallen creation. God's mission in this world has always made the rescue of the oppressed an important point. Just read the prophets.

Let the man speak the truth!

"...but there is also the restoration of the fallen creation."

Josh,

I would, tangentially, grant that this is so. But the restoration of the creation--that is, the world, universe, et cetera--indeed, the restoration of everything else is purely secondary to the salvation of the souls of men; scripturally, that is.

Now all I intend by my reply is this.

I am pointing out that we disagree when you say "the Bible never makes the redemption strictly about the souls of individuals." For although it is obvious that we agree Jesus will create a new heaven and a new earth--ie: restoration; I do not believe that this new creation is redeemed in the way a Christian is ransomed.

Men have every right to speak about abortion. I think abortion is really a mens issue. One of, if not the biggest causes of abortion is the failure of men. Men don't have the balls to step up and accept fatherhood. And if our country really wants to reduce abortions, we got to work on the man. Too bad so many strong, pro-life, christian are considered the devil by some (not all) feminists.

Andrew said, "And if our country really wants to reduce abortions, we got to work on the man."

Bro, this is so true. Maybe the Church will figure this out one day before we die.

Aaron would have us believe that no one without "power" can be a racist because, "Racism involves power and 'systems' none of which black folks even sniff here in the states. So yes black folks can be prejudice[d] but racist is a whole nother thing." It's true enough that prejudiced and racist are two different things, but 'racist' is a word that describes an attitude or belief about race, not the power to translate those attitudes or beliefs into policy. (Carl is better informed on this.)

To say that one is not a racist because one has no power is like a quadrapalegic saying he has no lust problem because although he enjoys pornography he can't get it up.

funny!

Aaron

I don't see anything funny about defining 'racism' in such a way that one could hate one's brother in his heart but tell oneself -- and God -- he's done no wrong because he lacks the power and the systems to oppress him.

That is what your definition of 'racism' amounts to.

It certainly is an interesting definition of racism that would try to "split the difference" on Matthew 5:21-26 by trying to tell Jesus that those who say "raca" are not guilty unless they actually have the power to inflict harm on that person.

Which is, for reference, something that Wright could very well have if his parishioner is elected to the Presidency.

Sorry, Aaron, Biblical ethics does not allow us to play semantic games with Wright's apparent bigotry. Nor does even that tortured definition fit the situation here.

Soooooo funny!

I've got a funny feeling that aaron doesn't submit himself to the authority of scripture, and so it might be best to ignore with. (Especially since he seems to laugh at any objections to his ideas.) Wright, however, as a preacher, should be critisized in the light of scripture.

CM,
It is comments like this that have made me just laugh. This is exactly why I am laughing and not responding because of stupid comments like this. Come on man! You have to be kidding me.

You said...
"I've got a funny feeling that aaron doesn't submit himself to the authority of scripture, and so it might be best to ignore with."

Just so you know I am a pastor in the bay area of California in the process of planting a multi cultural church that has as one of it's core values racial reconciliation. Not because I think diversity is cool but rather a biblical mandate.

So please save all your uninformed and racially isolated comments. I have no time for it and even as I write this I realize I should have just responding with the "funny" comment to your absurdness.

But who am I? Right? You white guys seem to have the market cornered on what racism is here in the states and you guys experience discrimination all the time and race is always on your mind... so I really have nothing to say about this.

I think it is best if I just quote webster's dictionary definition and just shut myself up... because if it is webster's then it is absolutely true and relevant.

Forgive me CM for not submitting to the scriptures... your a such a biblicist and I would be anxious to here how I need to respond in "light" of scripture.

I think I will respond to that by saying.

"Soooooo Funny!"