Somehow some have concluded that I was actually arguing a point in the "hey, I'm back from the Japan" post below. Unbelievable. Here's what was said:
"While I don’t think you were intending to belittle suburbs or those of us who are called to minister there, because it's currently "cool" and "hip" to be an urbanite, expressing love for the city can easily turn into suburban bashing by small minds."
Am I missing something?
"While I don’t think you were intending to belittle suburbs"
I wasn't thinking about the suburbs at all. Why do the suburbs have to be included? I wasn't thinking about rural or tribal contexts either.
I'm so tired of this. I could have said, "I like red cars." And from that someone would have written that I'm neglecting "blue cars" or that I am failing to discuss the importance of "bicycles." Tired.
This is an example of "disassociative reading" and arguing a "straw man." Disassociative readers will read a line of text which sparks a trigger in the reader's mind, whether it's related to the text or not, and the reader will disassociate, going off on a huge tangent.
Here is the definition of straw man from Wiki: "A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. Often, the straw man is set up to deliberately overstate the opponent's position. A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted."
Back to the comments: "expressing love for the city can easily turn into suburban bashing by small minds"
Dissociation: I mentioned the fact that I love the cities. Tangential referent: that I might have been making a value judgment about the suburbs. What?
Straw Man (kind'a): Expressing love for the city can turn into suburban bashing? Why is that a necessary inference? Why can expressing one's preference be just that: an expression of preference? Is stating a preference a direct argument against something else?
Expressing love for X does not necessarily, or always, if ever, have to turn into bashing Y.
Try this statement, "I love oranges more that apples." Why would this lead to people, regardless of the size of their minds, into bashing apples?
"I like college football more than professional football." Why would this lead to NFL bashing?
Why can't individuals express a preference for a thing without it being ASSUMED to be an argument against something else?
When a man says, "I love my wife," does that mean that other women will be bashed? Or should be?
BTW, the urban/suburban debate? What a stupid debate. Who cares? Here's what I said,
my reflections on my time in Japan are probably going to bother a few people
Japan is a country not a city. Urban/suburban debate? What? So, would it not stand to reason that I'm actually going to talk about world missions? Missions, folks. Missions. A discussion Japan may actually have nothing to do with any lame debates in America. Tired.
Have American Christians so made Christianity about "America" that any discussion about missions, magically, gets ambushed by discussions of urban vs. suburban. Tired.
Let's try this: Christians are called to go wherever the devil is working and wherever the brokenness of the Fall has reached. Getting into debates about which area, country, etc. is more needed, or important is a silly waste of time. Being a fan of the whatever demographic you have been burdened by should need no defense and nor should your love for something ever be assumed to be an attack against whatever "Z" you fail to mention.
Fellas, if you think I'm being too hard on people let me know. I'm just confused that how a comment about liking Japan turned into, "Anthony, you might be tempting people to bash the suburbs." Tired.
Posted by anthony at January 19, 2008 07:31 PM | TrackBackOh man! Comments like that are so tiresome. What is it about blogs that make people so prone to confront? Can you imagine if someone said that to your face? Anybody with half a brain wouldn't think of it. But somehow blog posts make it ok for d-bags get all bent out of shape over nothing. When I read crap like that it's almost enough to make me turn to sake. And I'm not bashing American beer.
Posted by: Dan at January 19, 2008 08:50 PMAnthony, you're right on. Straw man is a new term to me, but the idea is not, and it's frustrating anywhere you find it. It's as if people's inability to properly listen to someone has also transferred an inability to properly read what someone has written.
Posted by: Jake Belder at January 19, 2008 09:09 PMI'm sorry you have to deal with the headache, but how you dealt with it (this post) sure did make me smile.
Posted by: Paul at January 19, 2008 11:15 PMHey Anthony.
You are correct, my criticism was misdirected and for that I apologize. I'm big enough to recognize when I am wrong and I was wrong in criticizing you.
In all honesty, I truly thought that the point of a blog was to generate discussion about a topic, and since someone else brought up the suburbs, I tought that's where we were going. Sorry about derailing the discussion.
Let me make it up to you. Though I don't actualy suspect you'll take me up on it, let me buy you a beer next week. I'm on campus often and will be there next week. What do you say?
Peace
please Anthony, there's still many waiting with bated breath to hear about the real issue at hand here. Japan!!! Enlighten the enthnocentrics and the high school dramatics to a whole new culture and world. Remind us that God is bigger than "our" problems, and open people's eyes to the wonders of God, and the depth of humanity, as you saw it in Japan. I'm stil eagerly waiting.
Posted by: Mark at January 20, 2008 01:07 AMOh and Darden, nothin' but love man. I can tell you sincerely meant no harm and that your apology is genuine.
Posted by: Mark at January 20, 2008 01:10 AMDarden, bro, no worries. Sorry to single you out like this but my trip to Japan--which is a nation where 4% of the people are Christian--just put a lot of things in perspective for me. Like Mark said, "nothin' but love." I the worst at doing the very thing I commented about. The blogging world is tricky. Hey, I'll would love to take you up on the beer offer, but drinking alcohol is the inherently sinful and wicked. How could you even suggest such a retched thing. I only drink water and wine like Jesus did (haha!!). But it was non-alcoholic wine he had, of course! My schedule's weird 'cause I've gotta meeting in GR but drop by any time!!!
Posted by: Anthony at January 20, 2008 03:01 AMAnthony, Darden and all,
My earlier comment was way inappropriate. I apologize for that and ask for forgiveness.
Posted by: Dan at January 20, 2008 07:59 AMAnthony (an all),
No apologies necessary. I grew up in a home where debate was embraced and often heated, so short of death threats and physical harm, I take little offense to anything.
As for the beer, I'm game whenever. Other than Sundays, my schedule is so flexible it's kind of like I don't even have one. Shoot me a couple dates and times and we’ll work something out.
Finally, for what it’s worth, I think all potatoes are great (except for sweet potatoes- which just seems wrong to me). But non-alcoholic beer- I’m sorry I just can’t do it. As Luther once said, “Strong beer is the milk of the old.”
So in the words of my Irish ancestors,
For every wound, a balm.
For every sorrow, cheer.
For every storm, a calm.
For every thirst, a beer.
Peace guys.
As I read all these apologies and cyber hugs going on I thought I could get it on it. Maybe I should apologize since I am the one who engaged Darden in the "stupid" urban vs suburban debate.
Sorry Guys!
Kumbayah my friends (I am sure I spelled that wrong)!
Posted by: aaron at January 20, 2008 11:30 PMWHAT?!?! Am I to assume now that we are ignoring the blatant attack from the devil on the consumption of alcohol.....which leads to drug abuse...and eventually hepatitis! Can't you all see that this trip to Japan has now spiraled us into a den of sin and promiscuity?!?! What would Jesus do? Would he go to Japan to promote STD's? Of course not! How can we sit here and speak about the Japanese without failing to mention the destruction and devastation we subjected them to? How is it possible that the US is able to use weapons of mass destruction and all we're concerned about are the suburbs????
Now how many logical fallacies are in that piece? ;)
Anthony you keep doing what your doing. I enjoy reading. I am also a huge proponent of learning basic logic. If nothing else people should at least learn the logical fallacies. I think people should learn the rules of the game before they decide to play.
Posted by: Frank C. at January 21, 2008 08:40 AMYou all just reminded me of that Ben Folds song......"Rocking the suburbs".......Just like Michael Jackson did!!!!!
haha!!!
Frank,
Please get off your high horse. It's amazing how many people are now commenting sarcastically as if this hasn't been a blog full of OVER REACTIONS! I have read this blog for quite some time now and have seen mass hist aria (spelling) break out over people misunderstanding Anthony's intent. Come on fellas. Let's keep it real. Darden misunderstood (just like many others in the past) and then I began to interact with Darden's misinterpretation and it went from there. Very normal internet miscommunication that's all.
Holla!
Posted by: aaron at January 21, 2008 06:54 PMAnthony,
I thought the operative phrase in your original post were these words: "More to come..." Anyone reading the blog in context would realize that your thoughts were not complete at all. I'm surprised that some jumped on you for making a value judgments.
I for one await your thoughts about cities and urban areas. I was in Detroit yesterday at the North American Auto Show. Talk about a complex place to minister...
Dave Sarafolean
Posted by: Dave Sarafolean at January 22, 2008 10:24 AMAaron,
It's not about you boo. It's about adding an example of logical fallacies run amok. Your "very normal internet miscommunication" are typically very normal logical fallacies. That was my point in my response...my equestrian skills notwithstanding.