The Institute (協会)

Beautiful photograph!

cities are where it's at. suburbs are so boring an unimaginative.

vell

Looking forward to your reflections on Japan, Anthony. We had some missionaries visiting in church on Sunday who have spent the last couple of years in Japan and are committed for another 15 years there. Be interesting to see how your thoughts and their thoughts compare.

The downtown area of major cities is definitely where its at. With the big buildings and people bustling around, it is great. I really like approaching major metropolitan areas and seeing the skylines.

I agree with suburbia being too cookie-cutter, with too little pizzaz. Throw in an art school graduate or two and things may slowly change.

Look forward to hearing more about your trip.

Anthony

I am glad you are back. I have missed reading here. Lay it on us, I want to hear about the trip and what Japan is really like.

Blessings

Scott in ND.

Yeah man, I'm really interested to read your reflections on the trip. I have so much to say about Korea, that it's hard to actually start.

I met a Japanese guy at Bible Study one week, and I've become friends with another guy who lived in Japan for 4 years, and they both said that Tokyo and Seoul are basically identical cities in their layout.

I'm definitely with you on the public transportation thing. I can get anywhere I want in the city just by bus or subway. I don't miss my car in the least. And at least on the subway, I can do something productive like study Korean while I'm on a long trip.

I'm waiting with eager anticipation to hear what you have to say. I hope before my year is up, that I get a chance to go to Japan (especially Tokyo) for at least a few days.

Oh yeah, gotta love the city! And as Tim Keller says, "As the city goes, so goes the culture."

Christian recognition of the key role cities will play in the next century will greatly aid the Great Commission.

One time my uncle was at an airport talking with some guy. My uncle identified himself as being from Iowa. The guy wondered aloud, "Iowa! What's in Iowa?" My uncle responded, "Do you eat?"

Thriving cities need thriving rural places. This doesn't mean that the rural places should return to some pristine edenic state. It's so easy for me to say, "Yeah, cities rock!" to the detriment of the rural places that need just as much (and perhaps more) proper ruling and subduing. It's not a matter of one or the other. Everything, all things, everywhere. As far as the curse is found, right?

"As the city goes, so goes the culture." Okay, sure. But, do you eat?

My friend, you will have to visit us in Sao Paulo...a mere 22 million cultural, economic, commercial and fashion center of the world!!!

Great picture!

I'm interested to hear about your time in Tokyo.

Anthony,

I too have grown to love the city, more than the wide open spaces my upbringing in Cedar Rapids, IA afforded me. However, I think the current "love affair with all things urban" has become a bit “banal” (specially in the church).

To some extent, guys like myself (who are called to minister in the burbs) are treated like we can’t really be engaging our culture because we're ministering to a "boring, homogeneous" group of people. This is what author Lauren Winner refers to as the “tiresome and self-righteous preaching about the spiritual superiority of agrarian or urban life.”

While it’s true the suburbs can be uninteresting with a Starbucks, Walmart, and Bed Bath and Beyond on every corner, the fact of the matter remains, the suburbs are where the people are. In fact, if you look at the 10 largest cities in the US (according to the 07 census estimates), with the exception of NYC, there are more people living in the “cozy” suburbs of those cities than in the actual urban centers (and they’re not all white, protestant, bankers).

That being said, while I love the city and everything it represents I also recognize that the “burbs” serve a necessary purpose in God's plan and that is: people need a place to live. Families need places to grow. Places like Toyoko, Hong Kong and NYC, while interesting and exciting, exist to a great extent because space around those cities is limited. Suburbs are a perfectly natural phenomena in an expanding culture and are no less a part of God’s plan than the city.

Consequently, just as the church has an obligation to minister to the city, it also has an obligation to minister to the suburbs, as well as rural communities. Our job is not to choose one over the other, but to bring the gospel to both places, challenging the injustice, racism, homelessness, apathy, and sin that exists in the cities and suburbs.

All this being said, while it's nice to quote Dr. Keller (for whom I have a great deal of respect and read everything he writes) before we all run off and trade our mid-80's colonials for town homes, brownstones and high rise apartments, let us remember that God, in His sovereignty places each of us where he wants us to minister.

While I don’t think you were intending to belittle suburbs or those of us who are called to minister there, because it's currently "cool" and "hip" to be an urbanite, expressing love for the city can easily turn into suburban bashing by small minds.

God bless the city. It’s my goal and dream to visit the 10 largest before I die.

Peace,
Darden Caylor

Darden,
I agree with you whole heartedly that urban praising has lead to suburban bashing. That is a crazy logical conclusion. But what I will challenge you in is your language of "God calling" folks there.

Let me first say that I believe 100% that God calls people to the suburbs to be a "light." But it seems to me that this is really the only calling folks are following. All your institutions of ministry/theological training are geared toward sending people to the suburbs.

When I went to Moody (which is right in the middle of downtown Chicago) it was clear that actually ministering in the city was not the idea but rather taking a job at a suburban church and then driving 45 miles to the city to do an Thanksgiving outreach once a year was the way to go.

I have trouble believing that this is the "move" of God when this is all that is being promoted (both directly and indirectly)to folks who are training for ministry.

I believe that the comfortable life that comes with the suburbs is the standard by which "institutions" preach/teach/and promote. I would hear more on financial stewardship then "caring for the least of these." One could say well that is Moody but I have taught college students from all over the country and been all over the country myself and I can say emphatically that this is an accurate consensus.

So let me say again that yes I do believe that God is calling folks to the suburbs but not to the extent that it is taken place.Institutional isolation still runs wild even in the training for ministry world.

Just my thoughts.

Peace,

I also wanted to add that global missions is emphasized in our theological/ministry training. I think I would be unfair to say that the suburbs is all that these places promote. Definitely overseas missions! But true holistic urban ministry? No.

Peace,

Darden,
One more thing bro. Sorry to beat a dead horse but I wanted to address one more thing. You had said...

"I also recognize that the “burbs” serve a necessary purpose in God's plan and that is: people need a place to live. Families need places to grow. Places like Toyoko, Hong Kong and NYC, while interesting and exciting, exist to a great extent because space around those cities is limited."

Again I will not deny the plan of God in the suburbs but to say that God's plan is to create a place where only a FEW can live makes me a little concerned. The suburbs are a place where "families can grow" but not all families thats for sure. No one historically can deny the "exclusiveness" of the suburbs and why they were created in the first place. I will not go into that because I know Anthony's readers are pretty sharp dudes. My point is it's not like anybody can live in the suburbs. They are pretty isolated with the best schools, best facilities, etc.

I hate to continue this conversation (all though I love to chop it up about this stuff) but I cannot just accept the typical "the suburbs need God too" statement. Suburbs are a "necessary evil" just like affirmative action.

In a perfect world skin color (ethnicity) shouldn't determine whether or not someone gets a job, but history is clear that the majority will not hire minorities without some accountability. So yes all though it is crazy that skin color and not competency alone gets one in the door, it still has to happen in order for justice to have a place in the workplace.

Likewise the suburbs are great in that they allow a family the best of everything this world has to offer (safety, good education, multiple SAT practice exams, etc.) but they were still rooted in isolation, racism, materialism, and trust funds all wrapped up in the misused phrase "caring for my family and giving them the best."

I am done! Sorry Anthony for taking up three spots!

Holla!

I'm sorry, I don't mean to poke fun at all, but I find it amuzing how Anthony seems to be the ignition for discussion, argument, and controversy, no matter what he says. It's funny how this topic was about Japan, and the thread has now gotten into urban / suburban ministries.

I think even if Anthony just wrote, "Hey, I'm back, it was a good trip," people would have still found something to spring off of.

Or maybe, Anthony, you've just been away for too long and everyone has been starving for some debate. I'm not sure.

And not to belittle the issues at hand, I just found the deviation humorous that's all.

Aaron,

You make some great points manhy of which I agree with in general terms, though not the idea that the suburbs are a necessary evil. Do many move to the subburbs for the wrong reasons? Sure, but you can't lump us all toegether any more than a suburbinite can lump all urbinites together. Be that as it may, I think we see eye to eye on many things.

Mark,

While I am actually very interested in hearing about Anthony's trip to Toyoko (a place I'd love to live for a year or two just to learn more about the culture) I must admit that to the extent that I am responsible, the deviation was a bit purposeful, though not intended to be a complete distraction from the purpose of the original post.

While it might be easier to ask Anthony for clarification on the purose of this specific thread, I took some of his initial comments (ie. "...my reflections on my time in Japan are probably going to bother a few people...") to mean that he was looking for thoughts on the "suburban-urban" debate.

We could have just as easily been discussing why many (including myself) prefer the closed confines of urbanism (man's creation) over the open fields and big trees of the plains (God's creation). I know some will take issue with that and remind me (ala Tim Keller) that the city is God's chosen place, yadda, yadda, yadda. But the fact of the matter is, the world as it was created by God had no highrises, sub ways, freeways, or what have you.

All that's to say, you are correct. Maybe Anthony has been away too long and left us all starving for good debate, or maybe his intent was to start one. I don't know but it seemed like a good opportunity to talk about this popular subject. You know the iron sharpens iron thing.

Peace

Anthony,

Were you reading Jane Jacobs or Ayn Rand on the plane? Or both?

I just signed up for Acton U over the summer. It will be great to meet you in person. Any chance you can put in a good word for me?

Glad to have you back.

Point well taken Darden. It's all good man. I want to comment on your "God's Creation" vs "Man's Creation. I am a C.S. Lewis fan and one of the things that He said that has stuck with me for years is as follows.

He said that we are never more in the presence of God hear on earth then when we are in the presence of another human being (paraphrased).

Yes open fields, plains, mountains, etc. are beautiful "pointers" to the God of the universe. But nothing says "creator" like human beings. No skyline, mountain, ocean view, etc. can even come close to the human that was made in the very image of God. Hence the statement after He created man He said it was "very good."

This means the homeless man we step over on our way to work or the business man we rub shoulders with on the Subway; when we are in the presence of humans we are witnessing the very image of the Creator Himself.

I think you know where I am going next... the city is filled with people! Sometimes it seems like too many but nonetheless that is where the image of God resides.

You want go where God is? God where all the people are. That truly is "God's country" according to my interpretation of scripture. Man is where God is revealed the most.

Mark:
No comment. Love ya!

Peace fella's