The Institute (協会)

Initially there is a part of me that feels like flying the Confederate flag is not equivalent to flying a Swastika. Perhaps this is because I grew up in the North where Confederate flags are rarely flown. I don’t think most Northerners fully understand the connotations of such a symbol. If I remember correctly, I think I even gave a Confederate flag to one of my cousins as a joke once for his birthday. The more I think about it, though, the more I agree with you. The Confederate flag, like the Swastika, has no place on flag polls in public view. I think we can honor the heritage of the Confederate flag just fine by placing on the walls of history museums where it belongs and should stay.

Flying the Confederate flag is insensitive due to all of the individuals who do not have enough education to know that the Civil War was fought over states' rights just as much as if not more than slavery.
This applies most of all to the Southern white folk who defended their privilege through the '60s and long for it still.
Isn't it a bit trite for Christians to take offense at a symbol though? If the Swastica symbolizes fascist statism, the hammer and sickle symbolize communist statism, the stars and bars symbolize confederate min-archist statism, and the union jack symbolizes federalist statism, which ought we to prefer? Or, rather, which ought NOT to be offensive? All represent an idol of the state which generates arbitrary laws according to its whim in the place where only the true law-giver who Himself embodies that law ought to stand.
"My true allegiance is not to a flag a country or a land, but to a King and a Kingdom." - Derek Webb

Nathanael Snow
ndsnow@gmail.com

Anthony,

By way of clarification, are you saying it "shouldn't" be flown as a matter of etiquette and decency, or are you saying that it should be illegal?

I will say that as a southerner I am proud of the MILITARY accomplishments of my forefathers, and ashamed of our racist past and present. Having said this, I don't have a problem with that flag because it isn't a social commentary but a symbol of great military heroism and valor to me. For the reasons you have enumerated above, I would never fly one in my yard or hang one in my house.

BTW...Mr. Snow above is totally on the money with his assessment.

Responding to the Derek Webb quote above, Webb draws a false dichotomy between "true allegiance" to flag/country/land and to a King/Kingdom. Submitting to the governing authorities is in no sense a "false allegiance" - it is a "true allegiance." What he probably means is that allegiance to the United States (or any country) is not an ultimate allegiance that will survive the Resurrection. Until then, the political system that God has instituted in our country is God's good, imperfect gift to us (as other countries' systems are for their citizens).

And no, the Confederate flag should not be flown. It's not threatening like cross-burning or nooses, but it is morally and historically obtuse.

i'm sorry Nathanael, but i think your anti-statist disposition (with which i often sympathize) has caused you to misunderstand the kind of government represented by the Confederate flag. The Confederate flag does not represent "min-archist statism," rather it represents white supremacy. Alexander Stephens, the V.P. of the Confederacy admitted as much in his Cornerstone Speech in Savannah, Georgia in 1861 when he declared that "[o]ur new government is founded upon...the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition." [Applause.]

So "NO!" the Confederate flag is not about minarchism, or tarrifs, or heritage, or Christendom, or military accomplishment. While this may be what people would like the Confederate flag to mean to them, this requires a great deal of historical revisionism. Ancestor worship and (willful?) historical ignorance are two big reasons why many don't view the Confederate flag the same way they view the swastika. Jewish people really don't give a damn about "what the swastika means to me." Private interpretations are not tolerated. And the same should be true for the Confederate flag.

Growing up in Chattanooga, Tennessee, I remember when racial tensions were very high, somewhere in the late '60's, early '70's. The tensions culminated in a curfew with the National Guard enforcing it. One particular event I remember from the local news at that time: along Brainerd Road, there was a huge demonstration, with black people on one side, white people on the other. The white people were carrying the confederate flag. One particular high school at the time, Brainerd high school,they were called the Rebels and flew the confederate flag at their school. I think they've changed that. Anyway, I don't think people carrying the confederate flag, or the people across the street watching them, or those of us watching on t.v. at that time looked at those flags as a proclamation of "heritage". To me, as a young teenager at the time, it seemed an obvious offense directed at the black community.

I grew up in Chattanooga, TN, too.

I understand that the swastika was used as a Christian cross. There are mosaics, paintings, etc. that show it on cathedrals, stoles, etc. in the Middle Ages. I once saw it in the corner of a very old Christian painting (I forget the content of the painting). However, the symbol has come to mean something quite different. You cannot go back and claim it again.

The Confederate flag may have stood for something good at one time. I don't really want to argue about that much. I think these arguments miss the point. However, the Confederate flag is a powerful symbol of racism now, just like the swastika (which used to be a symbol of good).

Education and knowledge of the history of the symbol does not change its current meaning.

For the sake of freedom of speech, I think Confederate flags should be legal . . . just like heresy and blasphemy are legal.

I like that perspective, William. I also think that people should have some sensitivity on both sides: don't fly the battle flag for the sake of others, understand that flying the flag doesn't always imply racism.

One thing I've always found bizarre is that it is the battle flag that caught on, not the actual flag of the CSA. Kind of weird.

Anthony - tangent - but since you're talking about GOP candidates it kind of fits. What're your thoughts on Huckabee? I haven't seen anything about him on your blog but a lot of younger evangelicals are supporting him. He made some good numbers after the YouTube/CNN debate last night. Thoughts?

I was just about to ask the same exact thing Dave, thanks for doing it for me!

anthony - I think Dave and Mark are baiting you. Good chance they are some young college repubs looking to rouse some blog activity for their candidate of choice.

Hey William, the swastikas you see on European paintings are actually there as a result of Nazi revisionism. The Nazis went through centuries of German art in an attempt to root their use of the swastika in the authorities (church, Goth warriors, etc.) of German history. It's a little disturbing that they were so successful, actually.

randomguy,
I am not proud of military accomplishments of my forefathers, though I might have plenty of reason to be. I am proud of their valor and courage founded on justified motivations. They may have been lied to regarding their government’s motivations, but I believe that most men who go to war do so for the right reasons. Most governments that go to war do so for the wrong reasons.

tusc0n raider,
I happily submit to governing authorities, I just don’t expect them to do any good. I do not identify myself with the government that is over me, but with the people I live among and my role as ambassador of Christ to them.

Christopher,
If Alexander Stephens used white supremacy to motivate some of his constituents to support war it does not necessarily follow that it was the reason most confederates went to war (see comments to randomguy above). I do not intend to condone the exhibition of an offensive symbol. I merely seek to provoke thought about symbolism in general, and to forward the thesis that all centrally organized government is pagan in nature.

The Union soldiers were similarly misguided into believing that slavery was the issue, when it was more about Federalism and securing the supremacy of the executive branch. A whole lot of people died on both sides.

I’m opposed to rhetoric which inflates Federalism at the expense of liberty.
I want to re-iterate that each nationalist flag represents an idol. We can compare which idols have wrought the most evil: Nagasaki? Hiroshima? Gettysburg? Stalingrad? Iwo Jima? We ought to agree at least on the fact of their being idols.

I'm not sure what difference you see between those who rule and those who submit... The government is made up of people who hold earthly authority from God.

More importantly, "For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good." (Romans 13:3-4) So it seems you should expect the government to do some good after all.

tusc0nraider,
Fair enough. But should Christians deliberately make use of political mechanisms to achieve uniquely Christian ethical mandates? No.

I expect God to do good in spite of me and you and all the governments of the world, because He said He would. I expect Him to achieve His decrees through government based on Romans 13. That does not mean that it is right for Christians to accept statism in any of its various forms.

We submit to authorities in spite of them, not in abeyance. We submit in order that we may heap burning coals on their heads.

I favor judicial min-archism because I believe in law and procedural development of law rather than arbitrary legislated law. I believe the Biblical and historical records show the moral supremacy of such a position.

As a Christian I believe the church is the only legitimate collective on earth, that self-interestedness is the best we can expect with consistency from unbelievers, and that Christians are fundamentally different in their human nature as a consequence of regeneration.

So, I expect self-interestedness from politicians. I expect altruism from the church. May the two remain separate.

It's worth noting that Georgia put the "Southern Cross" on its flag, and South Carolina started flying it from its capitol building, in part due to a federal government request that the states commemorate the Civil War on the centennial of that event. It's also worth noting that the battle flag presided over only four years of slavery; Old Glory presided over nearly a century of the same, and presided as well over Jim Crow for another century. Further, the Klan itself used mostly Old Glory, not the Southern Cross, until the 1950s. It still uses Old Glory.

Should we then tear down that racist banner from every flag-pole? Sorry, but real history is a wee bit more complicated than what the "race hustling poverty pimps" (thanks Walter Williams) would tell you.

After reading your initial article, I would venture to guess that your not a true southerner; you may live in the south, but you probly weren't born here, that's my guess anyway. As far as the mockery of the "heritage, not hate" quote, I couldn't disagree more if I tried. True enough, The confederates fought for slavery, but also for their freedom as they saw it as being contested. Go back into history and find me 1 war that didn't start because someone felt their freedom being contested. and If that is not enough, here's a link of some information that, well, you probly won't like.http://www.revisionisthistory.org/black_confederates.html

CrazySouthern, I was born in Atlanta. Does Atlanta count as "The South?" I was raised in north Georgia. I think that's considered the South.

Coming from 200 miles north of Toronto I hope will not disqualify me from comment. I have read volumes on the American Civil war the most recent being the many books of Bruce Canton. I am time and time again amazed at the courage and stedfast nature of both sides during that awful conflict. Even though the vast majority of men who fought for the C.S.A. did not own slaves and indeed carried the battle flag I can understand the way the flag has been highjacked into the racist symbol it is today. I deeply regret it for the sake of the long dead men who felt they were fighting an invasion and could not care less about the slavery issue. The flag more deserving of the distain shown would more appropriately be the Stars and Bars or the Stainless Banner. Of course neither of these is the one chosen by the KKK and white bigots. Coming from a British background I take pride in the Union Jack. However I can understand why a person from Ireland or India could see it as a racist symbol and yet it occasionally flies in front of my home when I am not flying my countries flag.
Beyond the historic nature of the battle flag of the Confederacy it is a a beautiful flag (cross of St. Andrew and all) which always makes me a little sad, today more than ever

I am a racist. I have little shame in speaking this truth about myself. However, I do not like to think of myself as an ignoramus or a hate monger; I don't hate for the sake of hating. I simply feel I have found an answer to a lot of the problems that plague not only this country, but strong countries world wide. The thing I find astonishing is that statistics and facts can be laid before some of you, and you always find some form of a cop out to hide behind.

If you are not coming back with the generic, "poverty breeds crime" speech, which in itself is faulty because half of these so called "beggars" are more wealthy than you or I, then it's simply disregarding HARD EVIDENCE and buying into self-imposed guilt and simply saying, "you're ignorant".

The proclamation of ignorance has been given a multitude of power in this century and the last, seemingly because in a society that dubs itself "enlightened", being "unenlightened" simply will not suffice.

I personally feel that too much animosity, world wide, is cratered around the American Flag. People look at it and see Freedom and Independence. All I see is a new, more clever form of behind-the-scenes dictating. A country where the government, because of it's granted power, can reach it's hands into your states, your towns, your homes, your wallets, your very soul and take whatever they wish.

A decentralization of the government is necessary, and to do this, a new secession must occur. We must disband the United States of America. A country that has done nothing but incur the hatred of all others, in lieu of a new homeland. A strong, more unified, less corrupted nation.

This will be the American Confederation, under the American Confederation Flag.

I am all for the confederate flags and all it stands for. But I draw a line here.Anybody who puts the Nazi symbol on the confederate flag is wrong and twisted.The Civil war was not to kill the Jews like Hitler. We stood for what we believed in and fought for it. The war had nothing to do with Racism or Jews. Yeah, I will admit some of the soldiers went against the war and started the KKK. That was the only thing that even come close to the Nazi war. I'm thirteen and I know this so why can't people older than me realize that. I have been all for the anything confederate for about seven years now. I was born into a Confederate family and I will raise a confederate family.To tell You the truth I DON't CARE what people think about what I stand for!! I am doing a report in English about the Civil war and nowhere in my books does it even speak of the Nazi war.So why put it on a flag that stand for it.
sincerely,
Bobby Ray

Christopher, yes the Confederacy was wrong in believing that blacks were inferior to Whites as you were able to point out from Alexander Stephens' speech. You seem to forget that in 1861, most Americans north AND south believed this. Lest we forget my home state of Illinois and their laws (enacted AFTER the Civil War) that stated blacks were not welcome. Anyone who believes the Confederate flag by itself is racist or a symbol of hate is incredibly ignorant or refuses to accept the truth.

Todds correct in some areas the North really had the same point of view as the south on slavery, once they changed their view they began calling the south evil and such. i see the pot callin the kettle black right there... secondly the Norths Great hero president lincoln didnt give a rats ass about slavery he just wanted a united nation. my final point would be that the civil war was NOT Actually about slavery but money. if you read modern history books the south has always produced raw materials for the north and then was getting the finished product sold back to them for almost double. while the north made bank selling to england as well. when the south threatened to leave(which is legal or was) the north went to war to "liberate slavery" which they did(not a bad thing). The south did tremendously well with the small amout of men they had, and thanks to the tactics of General LEE and Hooker. however the numbers were to great and the south had surrendered. after that the south was poor and the north sent "carpet baggers" south that just made sure of that.

So was the civil war really about slavery and the black population being liberated?

Is it Heritage and not Hate; i say yes.

Jonny

How can I purchase one of those flags?