The Institute (協会)

I have yet to be convinced that, aside from being illegal, smoking pot is immoral on its face. I suppose that it can be horribly misused, but what can't. I don't know that opium, in the form they are describing, might not be much different. I have trouble, however, distinguishing between what the Bible might offer on the subject, and what various media have indoctrinated me with for three decades. If someone could present a strong exegeted Biblical arguement against the use of pot-ish substances I would submit to it. I just haven't heard it. All I've heard is media issued horror stories that leave me to "do the math." I have been asked by the media to "do the math" on illegal immigration, urban blacks, and a host of other topics. I'm not saying drug use is moral, but I am a little dubious about just connecting the dots based on the selective dots presented by the MSM.

random said, "If someone could present a strong exegeted Biblical arguement against the use of pot-ish substances I would submit to it. I just haven't heard it."

Great question. I've never read an exegetical case like you said but I'm sure somebody's made the argument somewhere. Maybe someone will post one of them here.

Anthony, the argument doesn't exist (nevermind that Scripture & the Christian Life doesn't work that way in the first place).

There's nothing inherently wrong with drug use, drug abuse is a different story, though even that isn't as simple as Joe-Evangelical would like to believe.

The legality of the act has little to nothing to do with its morality.

Ted,

Could you put a finer point on Scripture and the Christian Life doesn't work that way in the first place? I just want to get a better idea of how you think it works in this sense. Your point may well be accurate, I am simply not certain what you are getting at. I guess my question is how does scripture and the christian life work if not in "this" way?

Although Scripture doesn't speak directly to opium--it was probably almost unknown at the time it was written--Ephesians 5(?) and other passages to tell us not to be drunk with wine, but rather be filled with the Spirit. So if we infer that Scripture does not condemn just alcohol, but rather intoxication in general, we have a pretty darned good argument that we ought not to be getting intoxicated on any substance.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to get a cup of coffee. :^)

But seriously, this saddens me; it is not for no reason that China instituted a death penalty for the distribution of opium back in the 19th century. To see a lot of young men & women ignoring the lessons of history for a temporary high, whether or not they get into legal trouble, is just, well, sad.

Point well taken RP. I agree that we should be wary of becoming intoxicated. I wonder how we marry this negative command with the first miracle of Jesus at the wedding. The implication from the story is that the wine had already been flowing, and that much much much more wine was provided through the miracle (and a fine vintage at that!!). So, is it don't become drunk (even tipsy), or don't make a lifestyle out of drunkeness, or glorify God in all things while enjoying the liberty of your new identity?

I agree that my morality as a Christian is not dictated by man's legal system. Although abortion is legal, it is still wrong. But IF pot were legal, is it still immoral? In my efforts to bring the gospel to the deadheads, I must enter into community with the deadheads. Do I engage their music? Certainly. Do I participate in promiscuity? Certainly not. In sitting around their campfire and participating in their lives, am I in sin if I puff the magic dragon a couple of times? Assuming such was legal, would I be outside of God's will in participating? All I am saying is that I need a better argument than the lessons of history or the collected wisdom of 10 years worth of "news" stories. History at one point has outlawed alcohol, and is currently seeking to do the same with tobacco. Is the flag red, yellow, or green?

Well, bringing the Gospel to deadheads may, or may not, mean you actually go to a concert. To draw a picture, Jesus' detractors rightly pointed out that he was known to minister to loose women. However, He is not recorded as having gone into a brothel, but rather ministered to them out in the open. The Pharisees would have had a field day with it if they'd seen him enter a brothel, don't you think?

So I don't know that you've got to put THC into your body fat to minister to Deadheads any more than Jesus had to go into a brothel to minister to wayward women.

And the wedding at Cana? Well, the master of the feast recoginzed that this was the best wine; doesn't sound like a drunk to me--you know, the kind that you can give a cup of Boone's Farm and have 'em believe it's Rothschild. My hunch is that the size of weddings in Israel, and the relative weakness of their wine, makes it unlikely that even 180 gallons would get many people there drunk.

So, when he ate with loose women, tax collectors, and sinners where do you think he went? Ponderosa? No, I think he went to their houses. I think he walked among them and met them where they lived. Also, I don't think the Pharisees could have had much more of a field day with him then nailing him to a cross. Honestly, how much more offended could they have been if he went into a brothel?

Also, why would I not go to a Grateful Dead show? There seems to be a lot of things I need to make sure I don't do in reaching the lost with the gospel. When Jesus said, "the gates of hell will not prevail against it," we need to be clear over who owns the gates. That's Satan's gates. The intimation is that we are taking the battle to THEIR cities and THEIR strongholds. In other words, we are infiltrating the brothels and Dead Shows and Casino's and you name it. We can do so because our Master has us in his hands and nothing can tear us out.

I would still like to know if I'm outside of God's will by smoking pot, or just apt to draw the ire of the pharisees.

random guy, i like your arguments and i tend to agree with you and certainly applaud and admire your desire to share the gospel with those who don't believe. however, are we not as the people of God to obey the laws of the land (Romans 13)? certainly we are not to blindly obey all laws regardless of their morality, but i usually abstain from smoking pot because it is illegal, not because it is immoral. even if we conclude it is not immoral are we saying it is okay to smoke pot even if it is still illegal?

Stephen,

I hope you aren't hearing me to say that it is ok to do something even if it is illegal. Because smoking pot is illegal, and because I am commanded by scripture to submit to the ruling authorities that God himself has placed over me, I must refrain from engaging in the practice. My assertions are posited on the hypothetical notion of "what if pot WAS legal."

Please do not hear me say that we do not have to submit to the legal law of the land. Far from it. In as much as it is in accordance with the law of God, I must obey. I don't turn in Jews to be slaughtered, even though it is the law of the land because such an act runs contrary to God's will for his people. I do, however, drive the speed limit, pay my taxes, and pay for what I take out of the store. On the other hand, even though abortion is legal, I do not have the right to participate due to my identity as a Christian. Were abortions required, I would have to break that law.

Random Guy, He is recorded as having gone into the homes of tax collectors; I would have to assume that had he gone into a brothel, that would have been recorded as well.

Except for one fact; you can go into a tax collector's home without people assuming you were doing business with him. Not so the home of the whore.

The loose woman, we remember, met Jesus at the well, and while about to be stoned to death. The very necessity of earning one's daily bread means that you can meet with virtually anyone outside of whatever house of ill repute they might inhabit.

I don't say that a Dead concert is inherently wrong. However, let's not forget that you don't NEED to go there specifically to reach the lost.

Looking back to the original article...
I thought it was interesting how the guy quoted in the banner talked about the appeal of opium based on it being "Asian" and that other people quoted in the article echoed that sentiment, creating the image that the drug was being chosen because it was cool. To me, that was the most interesting part-the drug is becoming popular not for the appeal of its high, but for it's class.