The Institute (協会)

Schools are always where things are most pitched. After all, Louisiana spent over 50 years dealing with a desegregation lawsuit that became tiresome, needless and piddly by the end. A great deal of the problem, to me, stems from the very nature of public schooling. Money gets spent in all the wrong places, like ensuring some vague ratio of 'diversity,' rather than in improving the actual quality and content of the schooling. Curricula is focused on social philosophy rather than on learning and teaching students to apply knowledge.

But, at any rate, I can understand the motivations behind maintaining racial diversity: after all, it was a large factor in the steps of societal integration that have been made. However, when that becomes the sole priority, at the expense of providing decent schools with excellent learning, then who, exactly are we helping?

I would posit that this situation has more to do with socio-economic class than with race. People who make money "work hard to put their kids in good schools," which means they are somehow above those who send their kids to regular old public schools. Until public schools are decentralized so that they can individually compete in their local market, this divide will continue. I can also understand the pull between "good" public schools and close ones. I hate that some students around here have to ride the bus for over an hour to get to school across town. But I also hate the fact that their neighborhood schools are depressing and dangerous. It's a difficult problem, and changing the very nature of public education is the only way to solve it.

Anthony,
What happened to all the Metropolis articles you used to post about? I guess you have decided to put the world of design on hold to solve the social ills of our society. More power to you.

Couldn't this whole issue have more to do with geographical rezoning due to over crowding than race? Oh, thats right, this happened in Alabama (where I live) so it must be racist, and we don't wear shoes and have double first names and 'the bear' is the fourth member of the trinity.

Looked at the link, and there's a link noting that the Mychal Bell's conviction in the Louisiana case was overturned. (you'd need to be Solomon to sort that one out...) Just a note of interest here, I think.

But to this in 'Bama, they're not doing a very good job of racial segregation, if that's the goal; the "whitest" school is still 56% black, according to the article. I dare suggest with Drama that it's an economic, not a racial, issue.

And why are the schools in poor areas so bad? Not because of funds--they get more than the suburbs do, in general. Might have something to do with what Dr. Williams and Dr. Sowell tell us; the best predictor of poverty, crime, and poor academics is fatherlessness. Schools can't fix that one.

Churnock, funny you should ask. I just got a new issue today. They're coming back. No worries.

The two most important things in education are:
Good Curriculum
Parental involvment

My three kids are attending an all black school (home school) and they socialize with both black and white children all the time. It is a good thing for races and classes to socailize but mandating it through the public schools as if it is somehow an aide to education does not make much sense to me. I learned nothing I was graded on as a result of me sitting beside someone of a higher social status or color as mine.

I don't do the spelling as you can tell. INVOLVEMENT.

Maybe one of these segregated kids will invent spell check for comments some day:)

Where does Robert Perry get that when it comes to funding public schools that "they get more than the suburbs do, in general." This isn't even close to being true. This is how the public school system works.
School funding comes through local taxes. Poor communities have a lower tax base. Thus, schools within poor communities are under-funded.
The physical state of inner-city schools, the equipment and supplies available, the level of instruction, class size, expectations of the students and so on are noticeably inferior when compared with their non-inner-city counterparts.
I am not sure where you are getting this or maybe it is just for the state of Illinois but I am almost positive this is the rule of thumb. Lack of information kills!
Grace and Peace,

I have always been curious to know about (1), if you actually have an answer (and were just looking to get our responses), I'd like to hear it.

Re: (2) & (3) I think there's a social stigma that characterizes black and hispanic children as coming from low-income areas. If it's a low-income area, it must be a bad school. The same stigma applies to white kids too. If you're white you come from a higher-income area, and because you've got more money, you get to go to a better school. What's weird is that in my experience this belief has been common regardless of race. A common perception where I grew up was, "If your school has a lot of asians, you'll get a better education." It's one of those 'positive' stereotypes that people are almost always shocked to learn others find offensive (you know like, "African Americans are always so fast and strong!" or "Asians are so great at math.").

Re: (4) Probably not because many churches mistakenly believe the kingdom of heaven is where the saved get to go when they die and not a place that they live in now.

Aaron,
Let me throw this wrench into your logic: My Christian private highschool recieved less money per student than the sourrounding city public schools. My highschool was in the top 10 school in the city and graduated 98 to 100% of the student most of which went to college and graduate school. The public schools since have been taken over by the state and rank in the bottom nationally (thank God for Mississippi). Money is the root of evil not the salvation of our schools.

churnock,

are you saying your christian private high school got less cash per student from the state? isn't that what makes it private? why would the state give any money to a private school?

as a one-year public school teacher, i wish i could figure out what's wrong with the school system, but i can't. i think it runs deeper than any one problem. it starts at the core, and the core is so covered up with unnecessary regulations, overpaid administrators, etc., that it's hard to even know what the core is.

Daniel,
Sorry for the confusion. The money my high school received in tuition per student was less than the state gave the public schools per student. My high school didn't get a dime from the state (making it private).

Aaron, yes, government schools are trashed in the inner city, but the claim that inner city schools are underfunded is completely unfounded. Here in MN, one of the top spending districts is Minneapolis--it's also about the lowest performing. The same goes with Washington, DC, and yes, Chicago.

And if you doubt that there is a property tax base, look at 35W going into Minneapolis each morning, or the Dan Ryan or Ike going into Chicago. Let's not pretend that Ryback and Daley don't know how to tax the businesses where they work!

So the question is not whether there is enough funding, but rather where it's going. Education does not seem to be the destination in these cities.

churn,

that's what i was hoping, but i wasn't sure, so i went the antagonistic way. sorry about that.

and that's an interesting fact about the prices. how much did it cost for you to attend a year at that school? ccs is around $5K a year, and i would be surprised if they're dropping more than that on each kid in hamilton county schools, but i honestly don't know how much they're spending.

daniel

When you are comparing funding you have to take into consideration total funding, local, state, and federal funding per student to see a true comparision.

I have been told that it averages about 10k per student.

In most places there is no way to earmark your tax payments to the school where you live. It is all handled like a social program. "collect and distribute"

Daniel,
It has been a while since I was in high school and my parents wrote the check to the school so I am not sure what tuition was. I do, however, remember this being a hot button topic back then. St. Louis is dominated by private schools, since the education system is so bad, and I remember my parents fighting to stop paying taxes for the school systems since I went to a private school. I remember that the per student income was much higher at public school than private because they used that as an argument to stop paying taxes.

It didn't work and they still pay education taxes in spite of the lottery and casinos...

Robert, Robert, Robert. You are a troubled soul.Although I will not argue with you about questioning where the funds are being used, but to say that Minneapolis, Chicago, and DC are some of the top spending districts is absurd. This is certainly true but it only takes a few really good schools to off set the numerous number of bad ones. For example Walter Payton High School is a high tech high dollar school that spends 5 times more per student than the average Chicago Public School. There are a handful of these schools on the North Side of Chicago that are thrown into the overall pool of CPS system and its overall funding. Another thing to remember is the consolidation schools that have been popping up all over the city which cost a lot of money to get up and running. My only point is that numbers can be deceiving and there is no debating that ethnic minority communities are under resourced not just educationally but in all areas such as amount of good quality grocery stores, libraries, recreational parks, etc.

Churnock,
Not sure what your point was with the private school comment. Private is just that... Private. Seems like that doesn't even fit into the conversation in that it is a Private school. Thanks for the chat fella's.

Anthony thanks for the blog man I will visit and comment often. My guy just came from your ACTON conference this past weekend and he was really impressed. I am there next year!
Holla!

Aaron,
Not really sure how you missed my point (did you go to a public high school? (was that over the line?)). Let me see if I can break it down: Public schools, at least where I grew up, received more money from the state per student than my private school received per student in tuition. My private school out performed the public schools hands down. So money is not the issue with the troubled nature of our school system, it must be something else. To say that they are under funded ("Thus, schools within poor communities are under-funded") is misguided at best and more likely wrong.

Again, it has been many years since I was in high school and, now that there are magnet schools and technical school, I don't know about funding. But it is my guess that whenever the government is in charge of the money the issue is never a lack of funding but fiscal responsibility.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/economic_surveys/006685.htmlhttp://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/economic_surveys/006685.html

sorry about that, this one works:

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/economic_surveys/006685.html

I can't speak for inner city schools in Chicago, but the ones in DC have no semblance of order. They're incredibly dangerous and shuffle through teachers on a yearly basis. No amount of money will fix the public school system in D.C. I had some friends that taught at a charter school in D.C. and despite private funding, it struggled to keep its doors open. Even still, there were long waiting lists of students trying to get out of the public school system and into this charter school.

Troubled soul? Huh?

You conceded my point about urban school districts getting excellent funding, and gave a great example of how urban school districts throw money down the toilet.

Call us agreed, and you/re troubled with me, I guess. It's a great reason to do their best to get their children out of the government schools, don't ya think? Maybe if the NEA loses 75% of its members and funds, some meaningful reforms can be enacted.

1) unfortunately not too many people care about the bad schools so they remain bad schools

2) black and Hispanic kids don't need to be around whites to get a good education, but the sad fact is in many cases the white culture ( i should probably say the middle class culture) is more welcoming of performing well in school than the black culture (or the lower class culture) tends to be. so many predominantly black/lower class schools i have been in relate being "smart" to being "white"

3) most middle class whites don't want their kids acting/talking like lower class blacks

4) home school is the biblical model right? why doesn't everyone just home school... duh.

Robert,
I guess we do agree! In some sort of weird way.

Stephen,
Home school is the biblical model? Help me understand where you get that please. Sounds like you should keep your kids in a tight little bubble where they will only be around middle class white people. That always produces wonderful isolated Christians who aren't concerned about the world, injustice, the poor, etc. These are all biblical mandates by the way but that is secondary to providing a great education that prevents your children from "acting/talking," or embracing, appreciating any other culture then your own. This is western white Christianity at its finest. Isolated and oblivious to the global God of the Universe. God help us!

Aaron, that is a stereotype if I've ever heard one.

George,
You know what, you are right. I shouldn't have said that and I apologize. This whole Jena 6 has brought the worst out in me man. My hostility is misdirected.
Grace and Peace!
Holla.

Anthony,
Wow did you stir the pot on this one! Having lived in Birmingham for over ten years before moving to a county just outside of Athens, Georgia which is over 85% white and proud of it (God help us!), I would say that this isn't even on the radar screen for most Christians in Birmingham or Tuscaloosa (which is 45 minutes down the road). I mean, it's not like we experience anything besides segregation on Sunday mornings - why not in our schools?

I thought of a way that Christians could help mediate this sort of thing (since I don't think a church per se ought to get involved).

Ideally, there would be fellow church members on both sides of the policy argument. They could have a public dialogue, affirming each other's good intentions but raising all the important questions. That would provide a means for Christians to provide leadership AND debate. And because they are brothers/sisters in Christ, they would be (hopefully) capable of resisting the urge to resort to slander and insult.

aaron, i was kidding about homeschooling. i should have been more explicit.

i like your defense!

Aaron, there is a wealth of peer reviewed statistical data on the results of home education, and by and large it turns out that those educated at home fare better socially, interact more with their neighbors, and are less likely to find themselves in what we might call "ugly confrontations."

In other words, you've more or less parroted the NEA's slander. Get thyself to www.hslda.org and learn the truth!

And yes, some degree of home education IS a Biblical model; read Proverbs, which has long passages in the format of a father and mother training their son (daughter) in what they need to know. That doesn't mean that one cannot "outsource" a portion of education, but it does mean that any father who doesn't manage to pass on wisdom to his children is in serious sin.

And going back to Birmingham (ain't no ham like....), this is again the central issue confronting poorly performing schools there. Dad is generally peripheral at best.

Some questions:With Answers.

(1) What about the bad schools that are left behind?

Most can care less about those left behind. Most blacks don't even care though they will blog like they do. I ran to the suburbs for one reason alone. That is to not have my son, raised with some of the day to day mess that our young poor (black or white) are facing.

(2) Why do black and Hispanic kids need to be around whites in order to get a good education?

Because most blacks still feel that white folks got all the answers (hey look at the black reformed circles including me). Furthermore if you go to a white school they will have books with all the pages. LOL

(3) Why are middle-class whites, it seems, so against having low-income blacks (or low-income whites, for that matter) in school with their kids?

Because sagging jeans and cornrows are synonmous with criminal. As a matter of fact Low Income is synonomous with criminal. You with low-income comes, teen pregnancy, rap music, fried chicken (how can they stay a size 0), and a threat to good american (caucasion) values. Picket fences are out the door and shiney wheels are in!

(4) Are there any churches that will serve to mediate this conflict? My guess is that conservative evangelicals in Birmingham are going to remain silent on this issue. Why?

Nope the blacks are to busy trying to Reposition Themselves, and the Whites are debating over Paedo versus Credo Baptism!

Robert,
Thanks for the rebuke. I feel you all though I did go back and read Proverbs and I don't know that homeschooling is what I got out of it but I did get that I am to raise my children (two boys 3 & 2 and a girl 3 months) in the ways of the Lord. I guess you can say that means homeschooling. Help me understand bro. Anyway Robert I said a few things I shouldn't have (i.e. "troubled soul") and I apologize. I told George that this whole Jena 6 stuff has really gotten the best of me. I will go to the NEA (even though I have no idea what that is) and learn bro.
Grace and Peace,
Aaron

"(3) Why are middle-class whites, it seems, so against having low-income blacks (or low-income whites, for that matter) in school with their kids?

Because sagging jeans and cornrows are synonmous with criminal. As a matter of fact Low Income is synonomous with criminal. You with low-income comes, teen pregnancy, rap music, fried chicken (how can they stay a size 0), and a threat to good american (caucasion) values. Picket fences are out the door and shiney wheels are in!"

This brought a smile to my face. So true the paranoid fears of some groups of people. Yet how ridiculous when examined. After all, Meth labs and meth users are generally in white neighborhoods--middle and upper class ones at that. It amazing how dumb our stereotypes can make us when we believe in them.

'tis forgiven, Aaron.

And regarding "how do you arrive at homeschooling?" from Proverbs; how not? Is not education training for life, and is not Proverbs the wisdom of how to live life well? It's a broader definition of homeschooling than most people use, but it's one that I think we ought to.

To bring things back to Birmingham, we take away a father's role via the schools, divorce court, welfare, and so on, and then we wonder why Dad's not involved in so many homes, especially poor ones.

And then we wonder why the schools in those neighborhoods don't show any evidence of a father being involved in the childrens' lives, and why the kids aren't learning.

Oops, Tuscaloosa. My mistake.