The Institute (協会)

sounds a lot like the Chicago area in the mid-80's

stelmodad, me guess it's that it's probably still there. I've seen recent footage of this stuff in the L.A. area as well. There's stuff on youtube about the scene in Indiana as well.

I think in order for the church to be able to reach this scene we are going to have to have at least three things:
1. A picture of Jesus that is not feminized and pitiful.
2. A biblically powerful, sovereign God as opposed to the weak and helpless "I don't want to step on anyone's toes, I just want us all to get along" god."
3. Men in the church who follow this God and are maybe a little rough around the edges.

These guys need to see what true masculinity is and as the church we need to understand what that is and figure out why we are missing it. I'm not trying to say that these guys aren't clearly acting in a totally depraved and sinful way. That is obviously the case. But that desire to belong and to feel strong could be turned towards the truth.

I currently live in SLC, the capitol of Straight Edge / Vegan militant violence. Most clubs don’t hold hardcore shows anymore because of the extreme cases of violence that occur. Ever hear of kids getting branded with Xs or beaten with chains and bats for having a cigarette - SLC is where that came from, it has even gone so far as to firebomb McDonalds and kill families and children to defend animal rights. There is not a week that goes by that I do not meet some one who was in prison for some form of militant violence. Kids here don’t say, “hey lets go to the show tonight” they say “want to go see a fight”. SLC if far different from where I grew up in PHX. Where I come from there were churches and ministries that had a heart for the Hardcore (hXc), Straight Edge (sXe), Vegan Kids, and even the less popular Spock Rocker/Electroclash & Forward Thinking Metal and Crustcore Punk Kids. I had a heart for that scene growing up and I see how needed it is here in SLC but no one ever seemed to step up but the police and they just threw the kids in jail and shut down the clubs. Now most promoters won’t touch a straight up hardcore show with a stick, they can’t afford the bad publicity.

I hear you loud and clear Anthony it is a sad situation.

One observance I have about our scene here in SLC as opposed to those in other areas is that these kids mostly come from big close knit families and operate more like classical gangs than I’ve seen elsewhere. Instead of these being kids that come from more outcasted punk backgrounds, these kids were the Jocks and Football players maybe even mister popular himself and for the most part these kids here did not drink, smoke, or have sex that’s why I think the scene went one step further (added violence) to separate themselves from the mormon populous in these parts, from which lots of them came, and add animal rights to the bill and you get front page news.
We plan on, that is our church plant in here in SLC, to reach out to these kids. I am indebted to ministries such as Revolution (Mike Whall, Kelly Miller, and Jay Baker) & XAO (Calvary Chapel Mesa) for teaching me about Christ and keeping me safe as I was growing up in and around the hardcore/punk scene in Arizona. I want to do the same for the kids here.

I have a friend who got me into the hardcore scene. I still don't like the harder streams of the music, but I'm a die hard fan of bands like Thrice (who, btw, are committed Christians). There is DEFINITELY a cry for social reform from them. The problem often is, that the church is synonymous with the suburban starbucks culture that is so hated.

Whoever does minister in this culture is going to have to take some HARD punches and sacrifice greatly to be able to speak into the kids' lives. "street cred" in this culture is blood-red.

I echo dave wholeheartedly. The social-rebel Jesus needs to greatly come out, where he spoke out against the established norms in favor of righteousness. The Jesus of Revelation 19:16 needs to be preached.

Prophetic Dave!!! The Jesus in a pink dress petting a lamb probably won't due for this crowd.

Mikey Moore, WOW, that's some info. You plan to reach this world that's awesome. You've obviously got some Mark Driscoll/Acts 29 influence! It's one of the few communities that produces the kind of men that could go into communities like these. Very cool!

Anthony, I was actually thinking of Mark Driscoll/Acts 29 as I was reading this post. Are there other ministries you're aware of that could have a similar ministry to these kids?

Jake, I have no idea. Most of the evangelical ministries I know produce the preppy, frat boy type that these guys hate. I have no idea bro.

For those of you who don’t know me, my name is Adam Porcella. I am first year M-Div student at CTS and an avid reader of Anthony’s blog. Normally I don’t participate in online forums, but this issue strikes a little bit to close to home for me not to comment. I grew up in the Philadelphia punk scene Anthony mentions and, even though I have hung up my studded belt since becoming a Christian in late High-school, I am still highly involved in the scene via lifelong friends. This summer I witnessed a guy you might call “emo” get completely thrashed by two punks for showing up at the wrong house party. The “house” this kid unwittingly walked into is called “The Halfway House”, a mecca for Philly hard-core punks. The only reason I ever make it through the front door of this house is because I have known most of the house’s resident the better part of my life.

I can tell you it’s going to take more than a picture of Jesus in a muscle shirt to reach this scene. Punks are driven by anger and resentment. People have either ignored or abused many of them for most of their lives. Consequently, they have found something in their ranks that the world rarely offers... loyalty.

If the church is ever going to reach this community, we need to be able to show them, through the way we live and communicate, that the church is a place that supports our own, and I don’t see that. What I have seen more often are churches that are quicker to burn their own than they are willing to risk unmasking the impurity of their congregation.

Just a thought.

Adam said, "This summer I witnessed a guy you might call “emo” get completely thrashed by two punks for showing up at the wrong house party. The “house” this kid unwittingly walked into is called “The Halfway House”, a mecca for Philly hard-core punks."

WOW!!!!!!!!!

The crowd I ran with got heavily into the newly emerging "house music/alternative" movement in the early 80's.

There was a more severe divide between the haves and have-nots then with the recession of the 80's taking its toll on the lower middle class.

I was "saved" (or insert other appropriate doctrinal phrase here) soon there after and missed a lot of the heavy self abuse that was going on. Even after it took years to get over the prejudice I had toward those richer than we were.

I know it's gotten progressively worse since I left the region (East Chicago, Hammond, Gary). Racial and socio-economic tensions haven't got much better.

What became my church was (and still is) in the heart of that area and back then had a consistent outreach to the kids in the area. They've faltered in recent years but I was encouraged by what I heard from its newest pastor the last time I was there. I pray that they and other churches can once again reach out with the gospel to the families in the area.

Okay, I'm a middle class white lady and I've got two things to say. The first one's probably going to get me in trouble, but I'm open to correction if you can make it make sense to me.

First, I hear what y'all are saying about these kids representing a subculture that needs to be reached rather than simply judged and written off. I just want to point out that "suburban Starbucks culture" and "preppies" are in EXACTLY the same position. Just because that culture (with which I suppose I'm properly identified) is particularly good at hypocrisy rather than social protest doesn't mean that we can be written off as hopeless, either. Our cultural sins and self-erected barriers to the gospel are just different ones. And just because it LOOKS like the church is really "into" reaching that culture, doesn't address the fact that it's not really been successful at doing that -- rather it's been mostly successful at becoming part of it. It's not really an overserved culture, if it's not actually being effectively served with the gospel.

Second, and y'all will probably like this better: at least two guys here have identified themselves as having been saved in the midst of this culture, but neither has said how HE was reached. So, what's the story? If we're looking for keys to do that, then how did it happen in your cases?

pentamom, even though this site is a conversation/discussion for the fellas if you're going to comment please stay on the subject. The point of the post is to talk about the hardcore punk culture NOT to talk about all the other subcultures that aren't mentioned.

You're second question fits and you should feel free to simply listen if the fellas care to respond.

Thanks for this post Anthony! It seems like just a ton of issues among the hardcore scene unaddressed by the Christian church. Being from Salt Lake City, I also resignated with my friend Mikey. This quote from the movie SLC Punk sums up I think some of the dynamics going on in Salt Lake. I have a hunch this type of sentiment is felt in highly evangelical areas as well.

"In a country of lost souls...
rebellion comes hard...
but in a religiously oppressive city...
which half its population
isn't even of that religion...
it comes like fire."

pentamom, I and others were reached the same way most kids are reached.

Folks spent time with us and got to know us. While they didn't hesitate to call sin a sin they weren't quick to look down upon us or belittle our situation. They prayed with and for us, reflected Christ in their lives; candidly and consistently sharing the gospel with us.

anthony you too nice to this pentamom woman. Shee seems to got a real attitude and always trying to bing the convos around to what she want to talk about, how she a white woman and suburbs and all. I admire your restraint for the way u handle it bro.

Sorry, Anthony, I didn't realize I was taking stuff off track. All I really meant to say was something like this: can we talk about other subcultures with problems and needs without talking as though middle class cultures are also cultures with problems and needs, rather than the inherent source of all evil?

Okay, I'll shut up now.

Phil, thanks. That's the first time I've ever identified myself so I have no idea why you're being so nice to me.

Having been saved in the midst of this culture…how I was reached…

When I was a young punk / pot head at about age 12 (no joke), I met a few kids at a skate park who just happened to be going to this “church” for a concert, so I hoped in their car (and that really how all my life was, hoping in cars and ending up places) and we ended up at a little place called Revolution. It was housed in a small building that said Church in the Wind on it, which just happened to be a biker church. Anyways there was a concert going on when I got there with a few bands I had never heard of, one was called Strongarm (went on to form Further Seems Forever) another was Overcome (went on to form Indwelling), and a band named Five-Owe. After getting knocked around a bit during the show the music stopped and the pastor stood up. He had a broken leg and made a joke about how he got it at the Bad Religion concert over the week end. I was hooked.

He started preaching in a way I never heard any other man, besides Mark Driscoll – which is funny because he looked just like him but a bit taller. Anyways he started talking about how it did not matter if you smoked or had a beer every now and then (of course directed at the older kids) and he went on to tell us about the gospel and told us that we could pray to God when ever and how ever and not to be afraid because even he cussed by accident every now and then but just try not to cuss to much if you are leading a prayer out loud. I connected with this – I wanted to know more.

I invited all my pot head / punk / skater / hardcore friends most of them came when there were shows or a skate ramp set up and a lot of them “gave themselves to the lord”.
Revolution moved to the Navajo reservation a year or so later and the dynamic completely changed. What once was almost totally skater punk in the early 90’s turned into a more hippy (keith green style) scene with the occasional band or so playing at the new venue, that is when the church actually became more like a church. They would still throw shows in the Phoenix to reach the Punks and shows in Tempe & Mesa to reach the Hardcore kids and on the reservation to reach the wanderers and hippy kids. But for the most part the reservation is where the scene grew closer to Christ it was on the reservation where I got past all the missional stuff and got relational. It was a close to “New Testament” church as I could imaging. We fed and housed the poor, we all offered something up in worship whether it be a writing or a song and we all lived together through the week whether at shows or at work.

I guess now that I really have reflected on the experience – it was the missional nature of the venue that drew me in and the gospel being preached that kept me there and the community and relationships that brought me to Christ. This may be why The 209, another venue I helped start in Prescott Arizona, had the issues it did and closed down. If a church wants to affectively minister to these kids, and I mean affectively minister, there needs to be a body of believer that stands behind the vision ready to support these kids through whatever turn the scene may take. I’m not saying to condone everything but to be connected to the life blood of there culture and show them the redeeming nature of Christ that can be poured out and can transform them and the scene so kids aren’t getting beat up or killed and so there are people there in the crowds that care.

When we tried to do that with The 209 we could not get the church to stand behind us. Instead we got comments like… the church building is a holy place or I don’t want our youth or people in the church exposed to that kids of stuff. I understand where most of them were coming from but what they did not know is after our first show I got over 20 calls and emails from bands wanting to come and play a shows there and thought it was awesome that a church would open it’s doors to us kids – almost all of whom were referred from kids in the youth group or congregation. What I never told anyone was that the lead singer of the opening band on the opening night – a satanic death metal band (haha I know) had made the cross over. He got with me after the show and told me how he had been going to our church the past few weeks and sat in the back but never talked with anyone (this is the supporting church of this venue) and he didn’t know that we cared about people like him - he shed a tear and told me that everyone in his band did not want to play there but he knew they should…

I believe Christ drove him to that place and provided the venue and opened his heart and now that guy is a Christian and goes to church and teaches all his guitar students about Christ as he gets the chance. He told me that night that he knew others that should come and play there and that he believed that the venue was a God-send. He didn’t quit his band but did change what he sang about.

Those are just two examples of what can happen. There are hundreds more I am sure of it because I know about 5 or 6 kids that went on else where to try and do the same thing for the kids that were in there areas. I just hope they got the community to stand behind them. The 209 closed down a few months later me and the youth pastor left the church I believe no one else there really dared to care as much as some of us did - that’s why you need community support or else it just becomes a concert. That singer did not know the church didn’t really want that venue but hey what he didn’t know didn’t stand in Gods way to getting the job done.

I know that was rather long and maybe a bit off topic so I apologize.
I did not check for typos or that sort of stuff so use you discretion.

Pentamom, Phil's probably referring to fact that you've post here before and that your screen name and your previous responses pretty much gave you away as such but he never commented before. No worries on taking us off track but I easily react to the "well, what about this over here. . ." response that's not about the content of the post. No worries.

Fellas, Mikey Moore's got some GREAT stuff for us to think about!!

This was an awesome part of the story: "He started preaching in a way I never heard any other man, besides Mark Driscoll – which is funny because he looked just like him but a bit taller. Anyways he started talking about how it did not matter if you smoked or had a beer every now and then (of course directed at the older kids) and he went on to tell us about the gospel and told us that we could pray to God when ever and how ever and not to be afraid because even he cussed by accident every now and then but just try not to cuss to much if you are leading a prayer out loud."

WOW!!! It really shows the power of preaching in a way that actually connects with the audience you're trying to reach. I think our culture is desperate for men who are straight-shootin', non-soft spoken, non-scared to offend, non-passive preaching if we're actually going to reach the 75% of Americans that don't go to college and have avoided the feminizing effects of the American education system.

Mikey Moore, good stuff!!